Maurice Hayes (Independent)

I defer to Senator Minihan's knowledge of the Army and I am grateful to him for his intervention. These are closed, hierarchical societies. The experience I have had of doctors, policemen and soldiers is that they have all told me their areas are so private and so important that nobody outside can understand them and that they will deal with matters themselves. They should deal with most issues themselves but, increasingly, the professional judgments of closed societies are being doubted by the public. An important part of this is reassurance of the public and of individual members of the Defence Forces.

I suggest the Minister might look at the definition of "exception". One does not want the ombudsman ploughing all over the place or setting himself or herself up as an inspector general. One is thinking of a small number of people and of the issue about which Senator Brian Hayes spoke where the malpractice only arose through a plethora of suicides. One could narrowly define that. Perhaps the Minister and the draftspeople could look at the possibility of narrowing and restricting it to definable public interest and at making it clear that it is not an intervention into military law. This might be helpful. It would be a pity if the Minister dismissed it out of hand.