John Minihan (Progressive Democrats)

I have studied this amendment carefully and listened to what Senator Maurice Hayes has said. Given his experience, it would be unwise not to take on board his viewpoint. However, from a Defence Forces' perspective, the institution is somewhat different in that a body of personnel is subject to civil as well as military law and is governed under the Defence Act. The military police investigate matters of concern. In my time in the Defence Forces, I never saw occasions when the Defence Forces were afraid to investigate matters. Reading this amendment, I would be somewhat nervous that the office of the ombudsman could turn into a type of inspectorate. We could have situations where there could be civil and military police investigations and where the ombudsman could move in because he or she decided it was in the public interest.

When looking at a body such as the Defence Forces, one must accept the uniqueness of the fact that they are governed by military law and there is a system in place. If the ombudsman was suspicious that a member of the Defence Forces had committed an offence or behaved in a manner which would justify disciplinary proceedings, he or she could seek to commence an investigation. I would be concerned that we could over-investigate and, in a way, weaken the position of the ombudsman.

I appreciate what Senator Maurice Hayes said and I can imagine an ombudsman sitting in his or her office waiting for a complaint to come on a matter of interest he or she felt should be investigated. However, I would be more than surprised if the Defence Forces had not initiated an investigation within its own system and network. As I said, if there is a civil investigation into a member of the Defence Forces, one can rest assured it would be automatically mirrored within the Defence Forces system. It would be triggered automatically. There have been occasions when a military investigation taking place in the Defence Forces has warranted a civil investigator being called in because it has overlapped into civil law. For that reason, I would be a little uncomfortable if we were to proceed down this road.