Joe O'Toole (Independent)

Much of that is to do with the weather, which we blame for everything. However, I notice when I am abroad over the summer that people, including young people, meet outside where there are always things to do. We will never match that but there are things we could do. I wish to put one proposal before the House in the next fortnight. Let us consider what we can do at night. We are always told that there is nowhere to go except the pub and we all play a part in that regard. However, how many public buildings are open after 6 o'clock? How many museums, art galleries, zoological gardens and other places that people might visit are open? They are all closed and that is also a good reason for us to support theatre. There is a great demand coming through at present for us to do so.

This is not off the top of my head. I have examined this very carefully in other European countries. There is a view there, and a discussion is currently ongoing in the UK, that it would be a good idea to open public buildings so there might be another place to go, even if it were merely a matter of where people meet. The only place for people to do so is the pub. We all do it and I see nothing wrong with that. I know that some people would argue that we should have more alcohol-free outlets. I do not feel strongly about that; I have no problem with alcohol being available. However, there should be places where one does not go only to consume alcohol. That is what we should consider and I ask the Minister to examine that suggestion.

There is another conflict with which I cannot deal. I have said many times in this House that there should be no regulation of licensing laws. I now believe that I was wrong to say so. It is my fervent belief that people should be old and mature enough to be able to buy and sell alcohol at any given time, and in a perfect society that would be the case. However, there is now indisputable evidence, against which I cannot argue, that greater access leads to greater consumption. That is now absolutely definite after what we have seen over the last few years and I regret it. One cannot deal with drugs or alcohol on the supply side; it must be on the demand side. That begs the question of how we educate people that there are other things to do and that it is all right to go somewhere without having a drink. The vintners' lobby should be encouraged. It is good to see more coffee machines in public houses, but there are still a fair few in which one is looked at askance if one asks for anything hot, and that could be a hot whiskey or port as much as a hot coffee or tea.