Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)

People can get the wrong impression in this regard based on media reports and so on and I am anxious to clarify that in the interest of an excellent second level school. St. Catherine's is also an excellent third level school.

I reject the notion that the decision was reached on the basis of political interference. We are all politicians and we make representations. The public is entitled to make representations to us and we, as politicians, are entitled to make representations to Ministers. That is a valuable part of the political process. Representations were made to my predecessor, the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, in the normal course of events but the decision taken was not based on them. The system of access to politicians and Ministers which operates in the State should not be jettisoned by the criticism of the valid role of political representation.

St. Catherine's College has a long tradition of providing an excellent quality of education. It is a private institution, owned by the Dominican Order in the same way St. Angela's College is owned by the Ursuline Order. It has provided training for home economics teachers for years. Both are small colleges but they are centres of excellence. Reference was made to the amount of money spent on them. The annual grant to St. Catherine's to cover the bachelor of education training course, which is not met from the college's income, was €1.973 million in 2003 but the majority of the funding comprised State grants and the remainder comprised free fees to students. A total of €1.3 million was spent in recent years on necessary health and safety improvements. It did not matter when a decision was made because wiring and so on had to be done and, therefore, the money had to be spent.

The number of home economics graduates needed has been the subject of ongoing debate for a number of years. A steering committee on the future development of higher education was established in the 1980s and it issued a report in 1995. The committee examined a number of issues but had not completed its work. It recommended that the necessary review and analysis should be pursued further through a joint approach between the Department of Education and the Higher Education Authority. That was taken up in 1996 by the then Minister, who requested the HEA to reconvene the advisory group on the supply of and demand for second level teachers with revised terms of reference focusing, inter alia, on the determination of specialist teacher needs outside of the higher diploma programme. The terms of reference also sought recommendations on the required intake of students by subject area.

The review was concluded in 1998 and it was recommended that the intake of 53 students annually by both colleges should be maintained. It was assumed that number would satisfy the need for home economics teachers in the education system not only then but in the future, taking into account retirements, increases in student numbers and changes in the number of schools offering the subject. It was significant that the group decided there was no need for additional teachers.

There was no question of the Department seeking to close St. Catherine's or to transfer the students to St. Angela's but for the Dominican trustees indicating that they were no longer able to fulfil their role. This was understandable because the Dominicans have made a strong, positive and significant contribution to the area and to the State. However, because of their numbers, they could no longer fulfil their long-standing role in second and third level institutions. When they said they could not continue as trustees of the college, the question had to be asked regarding what would be done. All the options had to be examined. The trustees engaged in discussions with the Department to ascertain whether their role should be transferred and so on.

My predecessor was faced with a number of questions such as whether to buy the college, buy another site or transfer the students to different colleges. All these questions were examined. A decision on relocation of such a specialist college had significant financial implications and different advice was offered based on consultants' reports, the spatial strategy, which dealt with finances at the time, the numbers permitted in the public service, better value for money, allocation of resources and so on. It was obvious the Department should have considered where else such a course was being offered at such a high standard. St. Angela's College had spare capacity. It could accommodate the numbers, it had specialist facilities and it could respond to the future home economics needs of schools.

All the options were placed in front of my predecessor and, bearing all considerations in mind, the decision was taken. It was not based on the recommendation of one particular consultant or report or on political lobbying, but on all the considerations I have mentioned.

Senators have mentioned the report of Mr. Jack O'Brien, a senior official in the Department. While he set out some of the advice, there were overarching questions. It is not correct to say, as some Senators have suggested, that people will not travel to undertake a specialist course. People travel all over the country for specialist courses. There are courses which are only available at NUIG, which students are delighted to attend while others can only be undertaken at the University of Limerick to which people will travel from anywhere. There are other courses which are only available at DCU. Where people want to pursue a particular career or course, they are very happy to travel. It is not a persuasive argument to say that everybody wants to come to Dublin or even that Dublin people want to stay here. That is not the case.