David Norris (Independent)

I have no problem with that and there is nothing disgraceful in it. Perhaps Senator MacSharry, his father or other local people were lobbying for their own interests. Let us not pretend that there is anything sinister in this; they are perfectly entitled to do so but at the end of the day it is the Minister's responsibility to make up his or, in this case, her mind as to what is in the best interests of the country and the entire educational community. In this case, I believe that decision was not made on those grounds.

What is happening is a precursor because we will get much more of this kind of thing, although not in exactly the same situation. We will get problems thrown up by the fact that the religious orders are contracting in terms of their financial capacity and the numbers of personnel involved. This is really what happened in this case. There was a degree of contraction and the trustees, in their original form, found they were not able to continue with the valuable service they had given. There have been tributes from both sides of the House to the work that was done at Sion Hill.

An attempt was made by the authorities of that excellent educational establishment to reach agreement with the Minister. They agreed to the appointment of a consultant to produce a report. Its recommendations were that the Department, through the Higher Education Authority, should have discussions with TCD, UCD and DCU with a view to having St. Catherine's College of Education, Sion Hill, incorporated into one of them. He also indicated that a merger with UCD would be the most beneficial for staff and students, and would be welcomed by them. Nothing could be clearer than that recommendation, yet in terms of a Government that has committed itself to openness, transparency and accountability, it is astonishing that no such discussions were held. That suggests that minds were made up already, which is regrettable because the discussions should have been held.

I echo Senator Brian Hayes's plea that, at this stage, the Minister should be prepared to meet with representatives of the college. I hope she will be in a position to give us this undertaking. It seems extraordinary that no such discussions took place and that staff were kept in the dark until the last minute. Moneys were spent, including public funds, on refurbishing the premises at St. Catherine's College during the time this process was going on. That could be regarded as a substantial waste. If an arbitrary political decision had been made to cut off the school at that point, why go on wasting money?

Although we fought during debate on the Universities Bill to ensure universities retained their autonomy, and Senator Ross and myself nailed our banners to the mast on this matter, it looks as if we have been subverted. An important university course leading to the conferral of degrees has been closed down, not by the university but by departmental intervention and the arbitrary action of the Minister.