Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and congratulate her on a successful personal result yesterday. I look forward to working with her in the future.

I will outline my own position regarding the Seanad. I did not originally have a clear view of what the Seanad or Senators do. Five years ago I was elected to Roscommon County Council and even then was not sure of the role or mandate of a councillor in the political process. I have learned a lot in the past few years.

To be elected to a corporation, to a local or urban council, is a significant achievement. One has the trust of the people in one's ability, integrity and capabilities of delivering results. When elected, one is appointed to many different boards. At one stage I was chairperson of Roscommon VEC. I saw the complexities of the education system and how many education providers had a vocation or a commitment to ensuring the best possible education was provided to students. I was on the Roscommon County Enterprise Board and was also fortunate to work with volunteers committed to ensuring that any industry or local person starting out would be helped with expertise or employment grants which would foster the business and help it grow, so that employment would be created in the county.

I also served on the Western Regional Authority, where I met many councillors from different political parties. There was a great way of working together on regional issues such as water quality, road and transport and rail freight. That was a major plus. I also worked with the adult education board and I pay tribute to the amount of energy it put into adult education. Although there are some issues in that area with which one might not be entirely happy, matters have improved in the past ten years. Adult education is an area to which we must give more resources.

I was on other committees, including special policy committees of the county council and so on. One then wonders how a Senator can be a county council member, sit on a VEC, a county enterprise or adult education board among many others, and then find time for the Seanad. It cannot be done. When I was elected to the Seanad I was fortunate that the county councillors around the country put their faith in me to represent in this forum their interests and those of the people. I was fortunate that one of the nominating bodies, the Irish Kidney Association, took the time to nominate me. I had an interest in its work and have worked closely with the association since my election to the Seanad.

I have some difficulty regarding the nominating bodies. Senators act as a conduit to all the nominating bodies in the country. If, for example, the Irish Kidney Association has difficulties it can use me, through my good offices, perhaps to contact the Minister for Health and Children to raise an issue, whether serious or sensitive. It is regrettable that some of the nominating bodies do not use this facility to the optimum.

There are more than 1,000 county councillors in the country, many with far more expertise than I had. Some have 30 or 40 years' experience and genuinely represent the grassroots. I spent two most enjoyable months travelling around the country. I was in every town and village and met many would-be Senators on the trail. It should almost be compulsory for any would-be elected representative to go around the country and meet people from the particular party. One gets a view of where the party is heading and what is happening in the political system, from independent councillors and even from councillors in opposing parties. We can bring out reports and set up think tanks but there is nothing to replace the bond or liaison created when one sits in a county councillor's kitchen for half an hour and explains why one is the best candidate. The councillors will tell one what is wrong with the party or with the political system.

I am very keen to retain that system. For example, I raised certain issues with my party leader in Fine Gael. I realised, for example, that there was a strong republican tradition in Fine Gael which was still evident among the councillors. One does not realise such truths until one sits in someone's home. Any would-be Senator or Deputy should be sent around the country for two months in every five years, and meet the people who should make the decisions, the people who matter, namely, the councillors who represent the people.

I suppose I should welcome the end of the dual mandate although I would prefer to be on the county council or the VEC. However, it is good legislation. I have more time to attend the House to deal with the issues I was elected to address. If I must deal with mental health legislation or legislation relevant to the health boards, I now have time to research and debate and to put across a measured argument. This was not previously possible as I was too busy attending meetings around the country. A great future for the Seanad is now possible because Members do not have to sit on local boards but have the time and resources to make the House a meaningful forum. I am not saying it was not meaningful in the past. Debate in the House since the foundation of the State was of the highest quality. However, as Members had other interests, the people did not think the Seanad was as meaningful as it could be.

I welcome the fact that more legislation is coming before the Seanad. The Dáil cannot deal with the amount of legislation before it and it is welcome that this House can debate it in a more comfortable and measured environment. While party politics will always have its place here, it enters Seanad debate far less than Dáil debate. The House is an ideal forum for debating legislation.

There should be representation for emigrants. My uncle from the west recently told me that of his school class of the late 1940s, almost 95% emigrated. How could Ireland move on when the brightest, best and most liberal emigrated to London, New York, Sydney and elsewhere? We must have some link with the emigrant population. While they visited for Christmas or at other times, their views have never been articulated since they took the boat from this country. If they had been able to return in the 1960s, we would have had the Celtic tiger in the years following. We would not have had to suffer the continued blight of emigration and would have had a more enlightened, liberal and multicultural society if our emigrants had been allowed to participate in the democratic system.

There should be much greater emigrant representation in the Seanad and perhaps in the Dáil also. We are talking about the diaspora who we tend to forget, although we remember them on St. Patrick's Day when we tell them what a great job they are doing. However, through the Internet many emigrants know much more about the legislative process in Ireland. They have a meaningful contribution to make to the Seanad and they should be represented.

I welcome the suggestion that the Taoiseach should nominate 12 Members, including two from each tradition in Northern Ireland. Today is significant in that two members of the Democratic Unionist Party are visiting to debate and open talks. I am not concerned with the content of the talks but it is monumental that they are taking place. Governments over the past 15 years have made a significant contribution in this regard by inviting a nominee from Northern Ireland. At present, Senator Maurice Hayes represents one tradition and the other tradition was also represented. This is welcome and should continue.

I am delighted with the suggestion that the Leader should be entitled to attend Cabinet meetings with the rank of Minister or Minister of State. We have much time for the current Leader who is doing an excellent job. I would like to see the Leader representing the interests of the House and the country at the Cabinet. It is a positive suggestion and not one to be feared. The Seanad would receive new responsibilities and would also be able to inspect the work of the North-South bodies. People are appointed to various forums and committees but we never see the fruits of their works. I am sure that 99% of this work is valuable and the contributions meaningful. However, the House would like to inspect the work of such bodies and suggest improvements where necessary. Such bodies were allowed to comment on Seanad reform and we should be allowed to do likewise.

The House should also be able to review reports and Government programmes referred to it by the Dáil. County councillors represent their constituents but the Seanad has the cream of the local representative system. We should not be afraid to review reports and Government programmes.

The public image of the Seanad could be better. It is regarded as a staging post for politicians on their way to the Dáil or to retirement. However, it provides a forum for calm deliberation and provides analysis of many of the national issues. Senator Ó Murchú is correct that we had a heated but measured debate on the situation in Iraq. There should be more widespread consultation with the interested groups and Members can be used as a conduit in this regard.

I have mixed views on the suggestion that 50% of Members would be elected on the same day as European and local elections with the other 50% elected following a general election. We could have gone further by having 30% elected on a list system, a system I would prefer. However, we cannot take from the significant contribution of the grassroots and the expertise of county councillors.

I welcome this important and detailed report and pay tribute to the Leader and all involved in drawing it up. Some 11 reports were produced in the past 50 years but there has been virtually no reform. It is time to act. Members now have greater time and resources, including research officers, and we take our job seriously. This is an opportune time to make the Seanad more relevant. The quality of this debate has been exceptional and I welcome the reform process. I would also welcome an increase in the number of seats to 65. We are privileged to have the contribution of the university Members who add a certain level of debate and work closely with the council representatives.

I once again welcome the Minister of State to the House and wish her well.