Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

I welcome the Minister of State and this important Bill which has the advantage of binding the Minister for Finance directly and personally into the ODAF. The measure of ODAF contributions is not only funds from the Department of Foreign Affairs, be they bilateral or multilateral, it also involves funds from the Department of Agriculture and Food, the FAO, the Department of Finance and international financial institutions. It is positive that the ODAF is an interdepartmental concern rather than something which can be pigeon-holed in one section of a Department.

The funds in question are provided to the very poorest countries. While there may be merit in some low-interest loans as even the poorest countries must learn to operate within some financial parameters, it is positive to develop a straight grant system. Repayment is at best cosmetic in the case of such poor countries. I do not wish to steal Senator Ryan's thunder but there was one sentence in the Minister's speech which caught my eye to the effect that the International Development Association funds projects to protect the environment, improve conditions for private business, build needed infrastructure and support reforms aimed at liberalising countries' economies. These activities depend on the spirit in which they are carried out. In a totally statist system which impoverishes people, some liberalisation is necessary. On the other hand, it is clear from experience that over-zealousness and excessively rapid liberalisation can be disruptive and fail to improve living standards. We must be clear that liberalisation should benefit the countries concerned rather than multinational companies from outside allowing them to collar most of the primary resources which exist there. Projects such as those outlined should be implemented sensibly, moderately and in the interests of the countries themselves rather than world-wide enterprise.

Senator Brian Hayes mentioned with pride that Ireland is the third largest donor to Uganda. I remember when I visited Lesotho in 2000 with the Taoiseach, Ireland was the largest donor by a small margin. We can make a real difference in those countries by concentrating on basics such as better access to schools and water supplies. Led very much by the Taoiseach, particular attention has been paid over the last three or four years to tackling the horrifying scourge of HIV-AIDS. In his speech, the Minister of State said that 23 million had been killed out of 63 million people. One must ask from more points of view than one if it is really necessary given the development of medical technology for such a toll to take place. Perhaps it has to do with patents and the profits of multinational health companies. I have some occasion for doubt whether the balance is right there. When they are carrying out programmes, international financial institutions should be trying to ensure that unnecessary levels of death can be avoided.

Given the lateness of the hour, I will not continue further except to express my warm support for the Bill and make one final point. Like Senator Brian Hayes, I have had a great deal of involvement with ODA over the years and policy relating thereto. We will not be able in the fullest sense to hold our heads high until we have reached the international norm. I appreciate that at 0.41%, the figure for this year, is ahead of the EU average of 0.39% and I am aware that the EU has adopted 0.4% as an interim target, which we are effectively over. However, we must keep going and in keeping with our ethos and traditions we should be among the leading countries. For the most part, these are small Nordic and Benelux countries. Given the slow-down of the last two years we have been tending to stand still. It is an exaggeration to say I approve of that. We tend to proceed in this area by a step-by-step approach rather than by an upward gradient. I hope that from the autumn Estimates on, we will resume upward movement.

The Taoiseach made a solemn commitment when we were seeking UN Security Council membership to try to achieve the target of 0.7% by 2007. There is no point in thinking we can do it in a rush at the end. We have three years and I hope that along with our important social and other priorities we will give adequate priority to the need to be more generous to the developing world. We can afford it in our improved financial situation.