Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)

At the rate we are going we probably will not reach Senator Ryan's amendment.

I do not wish to discuss amendments we have not reached. There is a dilemma here. There is a problem in board members being proposed by various groups who might be beneficiaries of the scheme. There is also a problem if they are appointed by the Minister. I would like to debate this dilemma in detail because I agree that we must be careful in how we appoint boards and make sure we put the best people on them. One of the first things I came across when I became a Minister was a procedure for evaluating funding applications. However, some of the applicants were, in fact, evaluating their own applications. Having got legal advice, we started the procedure all over again. There are difficulties there. I accept both sides of the argument and I am open to the question.

I will consider a mechanism which will oblige the Minister to make public the criteria for assessing the applications. My experience in operating such schemes is that there is a need to make sure that a scheme operates as designed. To do that one must get considerable information before the scheme is designed. For the board to do that at the beginning of the year would make it impossible to maximise the benefit of the funding for the recipients.

I am anxious to allay fears that the criteria and selection will not be objective. I favour telling applicants how much money is available and what the criteria are before they apply, so that they know how much to apply for and that the only tests the Department will apply are whether the applicants meet the criteria and have applied for the correct amount of money.

Senator McHugh will be familiar with the primary schools playground enhancement scheme in CLÁR areas where grants of €10,000 are available. Applications for €15,000 had to be sent back. Every school in the CLÁR area will benefit by €7,500 if they choose. I do not decide what schools get the grant. As long as they fulfil the criteria they are through the hoop. Any primary school can be guaranteed to qualify for the grant if it is in a CLÁR area and applies for less than €10,000 for the purpose of the scheme. That is the kind of methodology I favour because it is effective for the recipients and it saves money.

It often seems that for every €100 million we spend, the consultants get €20 million and in some cases they get the entire €100 million. Those who win get a little, everyone else loses and the consultants are the only ones who consistently make money.