Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)

They must be equipped and staffed. That involves negotiations. Industrial relations issues are holding up the opening of some of these new units. People are saying they need this and that in order to move from a very dilapidated old system to a modern facility. It beggars belief that people are making that type of demand when I would have thought there would be an enthusiasm to move to a new facility. Neither is it a question of signing a blank cheque for service providers to staff a new unit. There must be realism in terms of additionality and staffing and there must be negotiation. The idea that we will cave in and sign off on whatever is demanded is not realistic. That will not happen. That is an important point.

The economy was affected by international events in the period 2002-03. We have learned our lessons from what happened in the 1980s. We had to take particular decisions to correct the economy and lay the foundations for ongoing funding of social areas such as health and education. We will be ultimately vindicated in taking that approach. As a member of Government I supported it.

Discussions are taking place between my Department and the Department of Finance regarding the revenue costs of the proposal to open the new units and the impact of the proposal on staffing levels. By any yardstick — the European context was mentioned — the rate of public spending in Ireland is over and above what it is in other European countries. So are the rates of increases.