Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)

The Leader of the Opposition, Senator Brian Hayes, asked for an explanation of the Taoiseach's meeting with the President of Colombia regarding the Colombian three and the circumstances in which it was held. I understand he met him in his capacity as President of the EU when he visited Mexico.

The Senator went on to talk about the banking sector and suggested, as is usual in consumer matters, that customers should move their business. However, Senator Kitt raised the point that if one lives in rural Ireland, it is not easy to move one's business. It is easy to move one's business if one is a depositor, but far more difficult to do so if one is a borrower. I accept there is a need for a debate on this matter.

Senator Henry asked when a Bill to deal with health and social care professionals will be introduced, given that it is on the legislative agenda for introduction this term. I will make inquiries as the need for the Bill has become urgent. It appears matters must become urgent before we deal with them.

Senator Tuffy called for the three investigations into AIB to be debated here and for the banks which escaped retribution to be made pay. She also raised the matter of the survey of 2,000 motorists, in respect of many of whom there was evidence of drug-taking, and the likelihood that such drug abuse can result in accidents.

Senator Mansergh spoke about the financial institutions and corporate governance. What I find dismaying about all of this is that it is never the ordinary man or woman behind the counter, with whom we deal when we go about our business, who is found to have done anything wrong. It appears to me that such wrongdoing is always found at the highest levels and not among the lower ranks. Officials in the lower ranks work behind the counter and are visible when people go to banks to do their business. Every time something untoward and strongly dubious emerges, we are told "that is the end of it now, there will be no more". Those involved say they will clean up, wash up and make everybody pure. It does not happen like that, however, as another wave of revelations is always on its way. It is important that we acknowledge that such problems do not start at the lower level of banking activity — they are found at a much higher level of governance.

I applaud the Taoiseach for his clear remarks in the Dáil yesterday about the idea that we should not talk about this matter because Ireland's international reputation for probity will somehow be affected and people will be alarmed. Ireland is well able to handle itself. The idea that we should not talk about the matter is erroneous. Only if we speak out to show our dismay and disgust at what has happened will we have some hope of remedying the problem.

Senator Terry agreed with Senator Mansergh about the banking issue. She also referred to the pension schemes, about which we will have a debate. She spoke about law and order. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform cannot go to every part of Ireland with a bata mór to introduce law and order. The very good public order Acts should be implemented.