Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

A member of one of the Orange societies in the North said to me a couple of months ago that he likes to turn on "Oireachtas Report" as a cure for insomnia. One can take that any way one wishes but he also expressed a preference for the Seanad. Whether it puts him to sleep quicker than the Dáil, I am not quite sure. It is interesting that we are holding this debate on a day when we have passed a Standing Order which puts flesh on an existing latent function and one that may develop further and be used for the first time in the coming weeks.

Every country with a population over 1 million people should have a second chamber. Having legislation in particular discussed in two different chambers is a safeguard against something slipping through that should not. We need checks and balances vis-À-vis the Executive. I support the retention of this Chamber and would always have done so, not simply since becoming a Member. I also agree with the premise that this is not a matter of increasing the powers of the Seanad but about increasing its influence and input. The role of the Seanad is primarily to persuade and influence rather than to engage in conflict and confrontation with the other Chamber, as can happen, particularly in federal states. Tony Blair finds this to be the case in Britain but the British electoral system creates such untrammelled power for the government that some checking mechanism, even an unsatisfactory one, is perhaps needed.

There is one point not covered in any way in the report but prompted by my mention of Britain. I would not like this Chamber, particularly through the Taoiseach's nominations, ever to become a place where people could buy seats in Parliament as happened 200 years ago. It happens across the water; if one pays a sufficient amount to either of the main parties one can be nominated for public service. I would not wish to see this Chamber being used as a business card or flag of convenience. I notice with some interest a former colleague who has made the transition from here to the House of Lords. He sat on the Fianna Fáil benches and is a fine industrialist who provides a great deal of employment in the North of Ireland. Now he is to sit with the Unionists.