Michael Kitt (Fianna Fail)

I welcome the Minister of State. I compliment the committee which drew up this report, which consisted of the Leader of the House, Senator O'Rourke, and Senators Brian Hayes, Dardis and O'Toole, as well as Senator Ryan for a period. Their starting point regarding the involvement of the public was very important. That formed the basis of many of their recommendations. There is a certain cynicism about the Seanad, but at the same time the point was made very clearly that very few people wished to abolish it, and even those who did want that, including the Progressive Democrats, seem to have changed their mind. I welcome that and hope we can work together to improve things.

Much of the report discussed how we would choose Senators and the changes to the functions of the Seanad. There are many references to the role of the European Union in the report, which I welcome. In this Seanad we have provided opportunities for debate on the European Union. Many of our MEPs have been here. Deputy John Bruton has been at the Presidium talking about the constitutional treaty. In particular, the debate we had with Seán Ó Neachtain MEP on the status of Irish led to a great deal of debate throughout the country and, I hope, throughout Europe.

Perhaps there should be a different composition in the Seanad relative to the Dáil. The public is not involved in our electoral processes. At the same time one does not want conflict between the Seanad and the Dáil. That is addressed in the report. We can talk about EU and North-South bodies and the scrutiny of public appointments, which is important, but if there is to be conflict, we will get into difficulty. Perhaps that is why former President Éamon de Valera had difficulties with the Seanad.

Many derogatory remarks have been made about the Seanad over the years. I remember someone once saying that when the Dáil had a day off the second-hand cutlery and crockery were taken out in the restaurant. I hope we have moved beyond that and that the Seanad is being given the respect it deserves. There is also an issue as regards the nomination bodies. I understand, from reading the report and from what the Leader has said that the county councils would be the nominators. Certainly in the past there have been problems and one would have to question the relevance of some of the nominating bodies in a modern Ireland. Also, it is quite clear that a person may get a number of nominations on panels, thereby excluding others. That is wrong. It would be interesting to discuss who will nominate prospective Senators. Many of the issues involved are out of date and need to be addressed.

The question of the universities is important. We all value the great contributions made here by our colleagues from the NUI and Trinity College Dublin panels. It is a fact, however, that there are many other people with third level qualifications who should be entitled to a vote. Considering that we voted on this back in 1979, it is amazing that we have not moved on it. The Seanad would be much more representative if that issue was resolved, once and for all.

Reference has been made to emigrant representation in the Seanad. Again, different views have been expressed on this in the debate. I happen to have been a spokesman, ten years ago, on issues relating to emigration. There was a strong lobby at the time to have votes for emigrants. I recall that when Deputy Howlin, as Minister for the Environment, tried to resolve that he met with difficulty. There was the whole issue of the secrecy of the ballot to be considered and the problems of getting votes from as far away as Australia for an election in Ireland. Further problems were identified as to how this might be done quickly in the event of a sudden general election. The consensus at the time was that the Seanad could be the appropriate place for emigrant representation. Again, some difficulty has arisen in this area and some people believe it would be better if it were resolved through the Taoiseach's nomination. Perhaps that is the way to go.

The report deals with other countries and what they do. There are bad situations in some countries, where people are made senators for life.