Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)

With other colleagues, I have attended recent meetings on these matters with the Attorney General and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. We appreciate the way in which all the officeholders in question have answered the questions posed by Members. The Executive, parties and groupings do not have specific functions in this matter. We have functions as individual Members of the Oireachtas. In the two meetings we have had, Members have been kept up to speed with developments in this fluid situation.

The Minister of State made an important distinction. We are all constitutional experts in our own right and anyone is entitled to read the Constitution and to form a view on it. As a self-styled constitutional expert, I believe Article 15.10 states clearly that Members of the Oireachtas have the power to proceed without this legislation. The Houses or a committee established by them have freedom of debate and rights of privilege. Article 15.10 states:

Each House shall make its own rules and standing orders, [there is a clear commitment there] with powers to attach penalties for their infringement, and shall have power to ensure freedom of debate, to protect its official documents and the private papers of its members, and to protect itself and its members against any person or persons interfering with, molesting or attempting to corrupt its members in the exercise of their duties.

If we are asked to do a specific duty, it is clear that we would be entitled to see documents, papers and images which, in another arena, might be criminal. The issue for Members of the Oireachtas is clear.

The distinction, which the Minister rightly raised, relates to advisers and others who are not Members of the Oireachtas and who may have to help Members of the Oireachtas in respect of any future committee work. That, especially, is where this legislation is needed. It is not needed in the context of Members of the Oireachtas.

The Government is proceeding in a way which ensures that all eventualities are considered. It is being fair to all concerned to ensure that the proper procedures are in place. I accept that. We do not want a situation to arise where basic fairness is not applied. In changing the law, we are ensuring that will not happen.

The Government is being extra careful about the situation in which the House now findsitself. Article 35.4, the subject of debate up and down the country in recent weeks, sets out our duties in this matter. We will have to exercise those duties should such a matter come before both Houses of the Oireachtas. We should not be pussyfooting around the situation by not recognising that the Constitution is clear that should a matter come before the Houses of the Oireachtas concerning suitability or otherwise of members of the Judiciary, we must make a decision in that regard. We should not be so constrained by possible legal impediments that we do not do our job.

This legislation is necessary, in particular in relation to advisers to a potential committee. I accept the Government is being extra careful in what it is doing in this area. I again suggest Members read Article 15.10 which provides us with clear powers. I accept that with those powers comes obligations of fairness. However, Article 15.10 of the Constitution makes it clear that Members of the Oireachtas and the House have a freedom — other freedoms and rights are also given to Members that are not available to general society — that must be recognised.