David Norris (Independent)

I agree with Senator Mansergh about Dr. Brady's intervention, which by and large was judicious. As a member of the Church of Ireland — not a Free Presbyterian — I was absolutely horrified to hear the truculent, ignorant and abusive response of Ian Paisley Junior who, during a radio interview, persisted in referring to Archbishop Brady as "Mr. Brady". I found that especially offensive considering that his father has a degree from Bob Jones University yet is referred to politely as "Dr. Paisley".

Senator Mansergh is again right on the McCabe matter. We must accept the practicality of the issue. If the release of the prisoners leads to the disbandment of the IRA and the destruction of its weapons, which is the only context in which the Taoiseach indicated it was possible, it is a sacrifice we should humbly ask the McCabe family to accept. In the same context, Senator Maurice Hayes referred to RUC widows and families who have had to accept this. However, it should be noted that these prisoners were not covered by the Good Friday Agreement. While the previous Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform gave a categorical assurance to the widow at the time of their incarceration, she has not been consulted since. The matter should be explained to her most particularly. It is very clear that the IRA lied about the killing by saying it was not involved. Its political leadership, which is the same as the IRA leadership, is now telling a different story. There are many areas of confusion in this which should be addressed.

I wish quickly to raise two other matters. While I have raised one in the past couple of weeks, it is only today that I have documents to give to the Leader. I am revolted by the dishonesty of the President of the United States of America who claims to be horrified and disgusted by what has gone on as if it involved the actions of a collection of people down the chain of command. It is United States policy. I have documents which I will photocopy and give to the Leader which indicate that Maher Arar, a Canadian citizen, was kidnapped at JFK Airport and exported to Syria to be tortured in the presence of CIA operatives. This is contract torture. As the Leader indicated, this came from the top. The language was set at the top. The leadership welshed on the International Criminal Court and said the Geneva Convention did not apply. It established the prison at Guantanamo Bay and exported methods and personnel from there to Abu Ghraib prison. This is clearly a matter of policy. The leadership had the reports and has known about this for over a year. It is lying through its teeth if it says it did not. It is not acceptable. The Taoiseach should raise these matters on a case-by-case basis and name the people involved when he meets President Bush.

On the same basis, I ask that in his meeting with the Chinese Premier, Wen Jiabao, the Taoiseach raise matters involving Tibet which have been of concern to this House. I apologise to the mandarin opposite whom I see smiling at my Chinese pronunciation which I am sure is quite inferior to his. Perhaps he learned Mandarin at his minor public school.