Joe O'Toole (Independent)

The House should be reminded that, on three or four occasions in the past 20 years, it debated capital punishment and its elimination. Senator Ross brought forward a Private Members' Bill on one occasion. We discussed the matter during Private Members' business and the final legislation was introduced by the Government. There was considerable agreement on both sides during that debate and one of the issues on which there was absolute agreement, apart from the abolition of the barbaric practice of capital punishment, was the importance of the fact that those responsible for the deaths of gardaí on duty serve their full sentences.

I could not agree more with the points raised by Senator Brian Hayes. We have frequently been quick in the House to criticise and ask questions of gardaí. On occasions when they put their lives on the line, we must be seen to stand with them. I do not understand what the Government is doing regarding this matter. The courts have spoken on it and we should live with it. The Cathaoirleach is from west Limerick and has seen this matter from both sides, but even given that deals must be done at certain times, I cannot understand the form of negotiation that begins by putting one's trump card on the table for somebody to respond to. This shows absolute ineptness. I mentioned second-termism before. In this context, if certain deals have to be done, they should be done after due consultation, negotiation and discussion and, particularly, with sensitivity to the needs of the families involved.

I, too, would like a clear statement from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on this issue. His approach to this matter is extraordinary and in stark contrast to his approach to eight or nine young people who expressed their disagreement with the Government on issues of international politics in a way that many in this House did over the years at the same age and who had the law applied to them by the Garda. They were rightly brought to court but were not given bail at a time when criminals are walking free, garda killers are being told they can walk free and there is a revolving door system in jails. In a democracy, we should encourage people to speak out and express their views, within the law obviously, but there should also be a certain sense of proportion in the way with which people are dealt. There is no proportion in a justice system that puts demonstrating students behind bars without giving them bail and allows garda killers to walk free. I simply cannot agree with it.