Michael McCarthy (Labour)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher. I also welcome the opportunity to contribute on Second Stage.

There has been a great deal of discussion in recent weeks and months in respect of this issue. If we knew then what we know now, much of that debate might not have taken place. I welcome the report of the commission. It was a good decision to establish the commission. The views expressed by Opposition spokespersons, experts in the IT industry and people who know a great deal about this issue have been vindicated by the report.

As Senator Maurice Hayes pointed out, the system used in this country for many years has been good and has given rise to great excitement. No one will ever forget the traditional excitement and suspense of the traditional count involving the paper and pen process.

There are good arguments in favour of e-voting. Like Senator Bannon, I welcome the spirit of electronic voting. It will be introduced at some stage and, when proper procedures have been followed, proper consultation engaged in, a lengthy debate and good research into the system, I believe it will prove efficient. The count in the 2002 general election in Cork South-Central provided a very good case for e-voting. The count in question dragged on for a couple of weeks. One candidate was elected then, following a recount, the other was elected and finally the first candidate was deemed elected. Electronic voting will help to avoid such situations and will reduce costs. However, an obvious argument against it would be what happened in Dublin North at the same election when the candidates heard the final result at the same time as those in the count centre. That was unfair on one particular candidate who lost out on that occasion. Such a situation could be avoided if the returning officer took a particular line.

I understand the commission will be making a further report and that the legislation is necessary in order to indemnify its members.

As regards the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and what happened in January and February, genuine concerns were raised in this House, the Lower House and elsewhere in respect of the accuracy of the system, the secrecy attaching to it, the capabilities of the software and the costs involved. It is a pity the Minister did not listen to Opposition spokespersons when they advanced these points in the context of the debate. They were not scaremongering but were articulating genuine concerns. This again highlights the important need for the Government and Ministers to listen to concerns expressed about any matter.

The Oireachtas All-Party Committee on the Constitution issued a perfectly good report in recent weeks. It did so, under the chairmanship of Deputy O'Donovan, after two years of receiving submissions and hearing observations and contributions at its meetings. The committee's work is a typical example of what cross-party activity can yield. It is also an example of why debacles such as that relating to electronic voting should not be allowed to occur. If a committee is given its terms of reference, receives submissions and observations and then makes recommendations and conclusions based on the contributions of all those involved, a better outcome is achieved.

When the commission's report was published, I met a number of slightly older adults who, to my surprise, stated that they had not intended to vote if the e-voting system had been put in place. They said that if they arrived at a polling booth and were confronted with a system that was alien to them, they would feel a sense of powerlessness and fear and might not carry out the transaction required of them which could make them look stupid in front of others. An ideal opportunity now exists to properly educate people in respect of this matter when the immediate difficulties have been resolved. People must have confidence in the system. If there is a lack of such confidence in e-voting, the project will be doomed from the outset. We need to carry the goodwill and confidence of the vast majority of the public in order to ensure that the system will be successful because it is people's participation which makes our democracy.

Will the Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher, indicate the costs to date in respect of e-voting and, in particular, those relating to storing the machines that will not be used on 11 June? Is it correct that Aer Rianta is charging the State €5,000 per week to store the Nedap-Powervote machines at Cork Airport? If this is correct, that is an extraordinary amount of money to be spending on storage when there are other causes much more deserving of this kind of public expenditure.

I understand that after the programme "Friends" on E4 this week an advertisement attempting to educate people about the good points relating to e-voting — a number of days after it had been shelved — was shown. Will the Minister of State say categorically that all advertising has actually ceased? I understand there may be an overrun where advertising contracts were agreed for a certain amount of time with some particular companies. However, it is important that all advertisements cease immediately and that public expenditure in the area is withheld and spent in areas in need of more urgent attention.

It is unfortunate that the Minister did not listen to the fears expressed by Members. The Minister told the House that electronic voting would commence on 11 June. That is not now the case and he has egg on his face. The matter has damaged his credibility as Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and raises serious issues about his stewardship. I would appreciate it if the Minister of State touched on those issues in his response. I look forward to Committee and Remaining Stages of this Bill when we will have an opportunity to propose amendments to improve the quality of the legislation. The situation in which we now find ourselves could have been avoided.

I pay tribute to the commission which worked within tight parameters. Few of us realise the strict parameters within which it operated, as evidenced by the need to introduce this legislation to indemnify it. It is unfortunate that the co-operation sought from some of the companies involved was not forthcoming. I look forward to its next report.