Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)

The Government's policy is that at least 40% of State board members should be women and at least 40% should be men. There is no disagreement on that issue in terms of policy. The question we need to ask is if the present policy of the Government should be incorporated in rigid formula in any particular statute.

In this case, we are dealing with a small authority of ten members plus a staff representative. The body should be representative of various interests as provided for in section 8(2). A situation could arise where a good combination of people representing the relevant interests and with the relevant expertise has been identified and the Minister would wish to appoint a board with more than 60% female or male members.

I consider that a rigid formula would be too inflexible. The Government's approach to this is correct. In making appointments to the authority, which is provided for in subsection (7), the Minister shall have regard to the extent of which each sex is represented in its membership and shall ensure that an appropriate balance is maintained in this respect.

This was extensively debated on Committee and Report Stages in the Dáil, particularly on Report Stage. The debate gave rise to a few interesting points. Let us suppose that the 60:40 mark had been achieved and the staff representative of the board resigned for whatever reason. To say to the staff that it can only lawfully appoint a man or woman, as the case may be, is a bit tough. They may have somebody they really want to appoint and since it would only be for a short period of time until the authority would next be selected in toto, this would prevent a free choice of candidate in one particular circumstance. Various other scenarios occur to me which I will not go into now as I discussed the matter at great length in the Dáil on Report Stage. The appropriate thing to do is provide for a general obligation of the kind set out in section 7(7) and to leave it to the Minister of the day to achieve that.

Deputies Costello, Deasy and Ó Snodaigh dilated far and wide on this matter in the Dáil. I reminded some parties in the Dáil which are not represented in this House that since they had no women among their Members in the Dáil, they were in a poor position to lecture me on the subject.

The House should be aware of the following figures in regard to State boards. Currently, as a total percentage of serving membership women constitute 30%. Women represent 36% of serving Government ministerial nominees, and the figure is 40% in the case of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. We have achieved that percentage in regard to the appointments I make. The difference between the two sets of figures is interesting because it is 30% of total board membership and 36% of total Government nominees. This indicates that it is the non-governmental organisations which have the most to achieve, not the Government. It should be taken on board that non-governmental organisations are lagging behind most in achieving balance in their nominations. To remedy this — I said this on Report Stage in the Dáil — I am considering asking all the nominating bodies that put up short lists of people to put up a gender balance list so that I can achieve adequate gender balance rather than having to do all the compensating myself when others have failed to do so.

On the question of women as a percentage of the total number of chairpersons, 18% is the total across Government, which is disappointing. In the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, 45% of chairpersons are women. This indicates, as one would expect, that the Department is well advanced in the matter. The rigid formula is too prescriptive and could in certain circumstances tell the staff association it cannot produce a male or female candidate because I cannot make that appointment. It would be better to leave it as currently drafted. I will give an undertaking to this House, as I did in the Dáil, that Members will be surprised by the amount of equality achieved on foot of the Government's approach.