Brian Lenihan Jnr (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)

I thank the Senators for a constructive contribution to a very interesting debate. When someone seeks counselling for a drink problem the first advice is that he or she must face up to the problem. I am glad that the Seanad has recognised this morning in the light of contemporary statistics that as a nation we have a drinking problem that we must acknowledge. All counsellors advise that the first step is to recognise that the problem exists. I am not satisfied, however, despite all the contributions this morning that we have fully faced up to the problem because when one looks at the statistics it is very serious.

I appreciate Senator Tuffy's concerns about drug-taking but alcohol is by far the most commonly consumed drug in Ireland and the abuse of other drugs often follows a period of abuse of alcohol. How many serious drug abusers did not start by abusing the primary available licensed drug? I am not saying it should not be licensed.

It is 1 April and there was a news report this morning to the effect that the Government would limit the number of pints a person could drink. Such a story can be published on 1 April because during the day one realises it is untrue. Although we must, we are not being careful in our use of this drug. All Senators recognise that. Senator Kett was vehement on that point. Senators also gave graphic descriptions of the effects of alcohol.

It is more useful to start by looking at the causes of alcohol abuse. Senator Norris made the point, echoed by a number of other Senators, that the huge increase in the disposable income of teenagers has a crucial effect. This change has come about because of increased employment opportunities. In our work as public representatives we see an increasing number of young persons working in licensed premises, retail stores and many other areas. To describe, as legislation does, a person under the age of 18 years as a child is to miss the point. These children who pay taxes and pay-related social insurance are entitled to the protection of labour legislation and follow an adult lifestyle. We must face up to the fact that this is the Ireland in which we live and whatever policies we devise to address the problem must respect this.

I agree with Senator Cummins that it is impossible to separate the worlds of children and adults in the context of this problem. Children now live an adult life and adult form of existence and have disposable income much of which is, regrettably, spent on alcohol. This is where habits begin to form and characters begin to change. No amount of perception through the schools, or worthy literature circulated by the Department of Health and Children will affect that.

This change has occurred in the context of great social and cultural change. The traditional control mechanisms and moral codes have weakened; several Senators referred to the dominance of consumerist thinking. It will become the State's obligation to devise measures to ensure that sanctions exist and that we have real deterrents. We cannot escape the issue.

There is no public debate on this matter. I am concerned by some of the types of sanctions being used in other jurisdictions when the problem becomes serious. Senator Terry spoke about the serious consequences of the abuse of alcohol on the accident and emergency wards of our major hospitals. Why are non-medical card holders not billed with the full cost of their stay in a hospital unit when it is a result of self-induced intoxication? Health boards must address this.

In other jurisdictions child benefit has been examined. We pay child benefit in respect of people who come before the courts. These people whose parents are in receipt of child benefit have used their money to become drunk. We need to examine this issue and have a rational all-party debate on it. Unless deterrents are built into the system, we will not make progress on the issue.

Some county councils have adopted excellent by-laws which prohibit the consumption of alcohol in public places and empower gardaí to seize the liquor if found. Such by-laws are desirable and I am sure we will see more of them adopted. In order to make them a real deterrent, county councils will have to set up staff to collect fines and impose the regulations. Otherwise they will remain a worthy aspiration.

The expression "nanny state" was used by some Senators. This phrase has gained a certain currency lately but I do not accept the argument made. We have had a big nanny for decades, namely the church, whose influence has weakened substantially. If the State is not prepared to give a moral lead, nobody will. We must face up to that. If it is nanny behaviour to suggest to people that they should not get blind drunk and to introduce sanctions with regard to the consequences of becoming blind drunk, I am happy to admit that I support the nanny state. We must foster——