Derek McDowell (Labour)

I endorse what Senator O'Toole said, which makes sense and repeats what we said earlier. I am now more confused than I was ten minutes earlier about the legal structure of the ESOP. Section 7, as I now understand it, allows for a certain power and confirms the power the Minister already thought he had to set up an ESOP. It provides that one or more such scheme may be established. I am not clear whether the existing ESOP is being merged into the new ESOP. My understanding was that they were essentially separate.

More important perhaps, I am also unclear as to whether the now departed workers, who took redundancy in recent months, are existing members of the already existing ESOP and have to be accepted into the new ESOP. At what point does their entitlement arise?

The Minister of State's comments about existing members of the ESOP having to vote is crucial. My understanding was that they were already members of the ESOP by virtue of the 5% provision, which was already disposed of, and that their entitlement to any additional shares which might be disposed of would arise by virtue of that fact and that there was no need for them to be accepted into membership and so on. I see from the Minister of State's officials that is clearly wrong but perhaps he can explain the position.