Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)

I join colleagues in welcoming the Minister of State to the House. I am pleased to speak on this important issue. I welcome the debate because it is important to put some facts on the record. Senator Mooney in his contribution sought to dispel some of the myths perpetrated by people within and outside this House. Hopefully the debate will continue in that vein.

The initiative on this issue was taken by the current Government in consultation with the social partners and others. It was an issue simmering for some time. Others have referred to it in terms of the age profiles, and recognising the times during which people emigrated, and how they reached the point where they are no longer working in the standard environment, and need help.

The task force was initiated in 2001 and reported in 2002. The strength of the Government policy lay in setting out for the first time a coherent framework for dealing with this difficult issue. Much talk has focused on what has not been achieved rather than what has. People have referred to percentages and so on. Some 50 of the 70 recommendations have already been implemented. It would be wrong, however, to take a tit-for-tat approach in this debate. It is a more fundamental issue about understanding the way forward. As a number of Senators said, there are no votes in this. The Seanad is a good place in which to debate the issue, because we are not always as conscious of the wider electorate as Members of the other House. It is important that we add our voices and our wisdom, whatever we might have.

Fortunately or unfortunately, I have no direct knowledge or experience of emigration. I was fortunate in that at the time I was born and when I was being educated, there was no longer a need for emigration. I have, however, heard of the experiences of many in my extended family. The difficulties that emigrants faced were well aired by Senator O'Rourke and by others, as were the kind of issues with which they daily contended. Scars were left on their lives and on the lives of those family members left at home, who were all the time concerned for the welfare of their siblings overseas.

The issue should not be about bureaucracy, about an agency versus a Departmental unit. It is more fundamental. I favour an approach by a Department over one by a separate agency. We have an ongoing difficulty with political accountability. The Government sets up an agency and powers are devolved to it. The Government or the Minister responsible then continues to get the grief, publicly and privately, for not becoming involved in the day to day running of the agency. While a unit remains within a Department, the Minister at least has a direct hand in the control, organisation and management of it. More than anything, that is what we need in this case — a political hand in the operation on an ongoing basis.

We are all aware that the issue is about money. Unfortunately, not enough money has been committed this year. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister of State, Deputy Kitt, have clearly stated that and said they would like to see more money committed. They have, however, started an important plan, as well as a journey towards getting sufficient funding. This situation has not developed overnight. The crisis has been going on for some time. We have taken an important step by putting a coherent policy in place through the framework documentation. The Government has made a commitment to increase funding and honoured it with a year by year increase. I encourage the Minister of State regarding the financing, though he probably does not need encouragement. He is well aware of the financing difficulties. I hope the commitment continues regardless of who holds the ministry. While Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats are in Government, that increase will be provided, as it should.

The Government policy on emigration has been inclusive. We all know the historic facts — the forced emigration, the lack of education for those leaving and the difficulty they had. We talked earlier today in this House about racism. Let us not forget that those who had to emigrate to our near neighbour suffered intense racism. There were signs on the doors of certain boarding houses saying that no blacks or Paddies need apply for entrance. That was the kind of difficulty encountered. It is important that this legacy should not bear down on us in the future, and that the Government continues, as it is doing, to put in place a proper structure to alleviate the difficulties suffered.

The current situation in this country is very different. We all know that most people leaving Ireland today do so with a sound, structured education behind them, with good prospects. They can travel outside Ireland to gain valuable experience which they bring back to great effect. Many of them have returned with entrepreneurial skills and have sought to create employment in Ireland, the lack of which was the root cause of many of the difficulties historically.

The task force approach will ensure that the past experience of emigration will not be repeated, regardless of our economic situation. Hopefully we will never return to the days of the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s, the days of mass or forced emigration. Should emigration take place, the policies of the task force will ensure, particularly through the pre-departure service, a support structure for emigrants in the new country of residence. The report also deals with services for returning emigrants, particularly the elderly. That is one of the strengths of the work done, reflecting the funding put in place to target those who need to return.

The crux of the problem regarding the difficulties of those forced to emigrate, and the difficulties they now suffer, particularly in England, is the individuality of each case. We cannot generalise either in terms of defining the problem or the solution. There is no "one size fits all" solution. Many of these people have fallen outside the social structure for a host of reasons. We must recognise that there is no overall solution which will resolve all problems overnight.

We have the same problems in our own society. I guarantee that anyone who leaves Leinster House tonight will, before reaching Grafton Street, come across two or three homeless people sleeping in doorways. We have a plethora of agencies. Nobody is suggesting that we have a shortage of funds to deal with the problem.