Mary Henry (Independent)

Senator Mooney is right that unless one has had the experience of emigration, and the loneliness of being away from home, it is difficult to empathise with those whom we are discussing. For approximately 17 years, Senator Mooney presented his RTE radio programme "Both Sides Now". It must have been a draining experience at times because some of the messages broadcast from London, Coventry, Manchester and elsewhere were from people at their lowest ebb. The Senator used the word "urgent", which is very important in the context of this debate. Many of these emigrants are in their 60s and 70s, so we will not be in a position to act on their behalf if we delay much longer, no matter what good work the Government is doing.

To date, Senators have spoken about those who left this country to get work because they could not find employment here. However, there were others, for example, women who became pregnant outside marriage, who were forced out for sociological reasons. Tens of thousands of such women had to leave this country to have their children in England. The perceived "disgrace" of having a child outside marriage was terrible and we have never investigated our levels of infanticide in those days, apart from occasional academic theses. It really was a deplorable situation. Some of those women are still resident in England so we could usefully make contact with them.

Some Senators will be aware that during the Second World War the idea of obliging single women to obtain an exit visa to leave the country was being considered. However, it was decided to drop the proposal when it was realised what effect it might have on the rate of children being born outside marriage. We used England as an appalling escape route for people who were at their most vulnerable. Some of them are still living in England and I have met a number. A friend of mine worked in a centre for Irish women in Islington, which is not the poorest London borough.