Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)

Ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leis na Seanadóirí a ghlac páirt sa díospóireacht. Is mór an trua nár léigh cúpla duine an Bille a bhí os ár gcomhair mar ní faoin dtaobh den Bhille a bhí siad ag caint ar chor ar bith. É sin ráite, is polaiteoir mé féin agus gach aon duine atá anseo agus sin an saol atá os ár gcomhair. Sin an fáth go raibh díospóireacht againn a d'imigh taobh amuigh den méid a bhí le rá faoin Bhille féin. Má amharcann duine ar a bhfuil sa Bhille, feictear go bhfuilimid ag caint faoi Bhille a ritheadh sa Seanad agus atá sínithe ag an Uachtarán. Ar ndóigh, níl mise ábalta athrú ar bith a dhéanamh ar rud atá déanta ag an Dáil agus ag an Seanad agus atá sínithe ag Uachtarán na nÉireann.

A number of issues have been raised and I will discuss these in general categories rather than dealing with each contributor's particular viewpoint. It seems to be unanimously agreed that home-based care is very important. It is on that basis that I will shortly launch the issue of long-term care funding. This will be part of a discussion with the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs. We will be seeking points of view and I would appreciate it if Senators took ten minutes to participate. Dealing with the carer's allowance and the home-based subvention scheme within the health sector is probably the best way forward on the basis that the majority of people would prefer to stay at home. A small monetary token can be beneficial.

This is an issue we will need to consider, particularly in view of major changes in society that have resulted in two people working in most families. This creates many difficulties within the caring profession. The issue will remain important. I welcome the proposals of the Oireachtas joint committee in this regard. The Chairman has been most vociferous about these matters in the other House. Only last week I provided the Carers' Association with funding for the provision of an information booklet, which was one of the recommendations of the committee. I was delighted to do this. We are considering the possibility of a care strategy in conjunction with the Department of Health and Children. This will take time, but it is worth it. We will need to consider how to provide funding in this area in the future. We will need to put our hands on our hearts and decide whether we want to pay for it.

The issues of child poverty and child benefit were mentioned. Everyone agrees that the provision of child benefit as a universal payment on the basis of a child poverty initiative and a child care initiative is the best way forward. It deals with the issue of women in the home and women who need child care as well as those who need income support for children. There has been a major investment in this area. We will soon reach the target of providing €2 billion each year in this area.

Senator Ryan spoke of the academic discussion that takes place ad infinitum about the indicators known as consistent poverty, relative poverty and at risk of poverty. We do not use the at-risk-relative poverty indicator in this country, although others do. It is all relative. We are dealing with consistent poverty; in other words, there is an immediate interaction with those who are poor. The results of the statistical analysis of the at-risk and relative poverty indicators are due to the fact that so many people are now in employment and have been removed from unemployment. Naturally, this cannot continue for ever because this in itself creates a greater disparity of income, which we must look towards in the future in ensuring that the gap of relativity does not expand considerably. However, it is important that we deal with the issue of consistent poverty. We must deal with the people who have an immediate problem, not with the academic discussion of what might be a problem in terms of an at-risk register.

The rural social scheme was announced at the time of the budget. There have been many discussions between my Department, the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment about this initiative and we are currently approaching a conclusion. I am working closely with the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív, on the methodology of payment and the numbers of people that could be accommodated on the scheme. It is a rural-based scheme aimed mainly at people on farm assist, many of whom are over 55, which is a group about whom we are particularly concerned. We hope to come to a conclusion on this issue shortly.

I am sorry Senator Norris is not here to discuss the issue of same sex couples. I listened to his comments and his view is that I am creating an inequity within the social welfare system even though there is a blatant inequity in determination. For example, in regard to a married or cohabiting couple, both of whom are entitled to unemployment assistance, one person receives the full rate while the other receives a qualified adult rate, as it is a means tested scheme. In the case of a same sex couple, each will receive the single rate. The converse of that is found within the administrative schemes. The Senator's point of view is valid, but we must all accept the realities of life. If we want to be treated equally we must accept equal treatment. Some people do not like equality if it affects them personally.

We must come to a decision on this issue at long last. I am wholeheartedly in agreement that we need to consider not only the social welfare code, the changing of which would have major implications, but also the taxation system and the justice system. All of this must be dealt with in a proper review. I have spoken to the Senator and I am sure he will be vociferous in putting forward the viewpoint of his constituency. I will listen carefully to what is said. I assume there will be participation by a number of organisations in this review. Results will not be achieved instantly, but we must deal with the issue once and for all. We must have universal administration of these issues under the entire ambit of Government if we are to have true equality.

Senator Daly raised the issue of the training fund. The total value of the fund is currently €1.628 billion, which is a post-budget cumulative surplus. He mentioned pension provisions and the changes within the Pensions Act 1990. We may discuss this tomorrow as it is a technical matter. The issue of the habitual residency test was also raised. It is incumbent on me to consider the protection of the social welfare system. I did not follow the British system. That system has gone well beyond social welfare and is inclusive of labour issues as well as access to social assistance. The UK, like many other European countries, has had an habitual residency requirement for the past ten years. This is the first time the requirement has been introduced in Ireland in primary legislation. It applies to everyone.

I have confirmed the methodology that will be used by the officials of my Department in determining habitual residence. The requirement will be dealt with on an individual, case by case basis. If a person is unhappy with the decision based on the guidelines that will be issued by my Department, it will be a matter for the individual himself or herself to prove his or her situation.

In my view and in particular given the circumstances in which we find ourselves, as a very vulnerable country within the European Union and the only one that had not addressed the issue, I felt it was incumbent on me to include it in the social welfare system. I reiterate that we are encouraging people to work in the labour market.

The matter of changes to widows' benefits was raised. It is unfortunate that this discussion did not take place when the legislation was before the House last December. One has very difficult choices to make. One of the parameters of the social security system has been that an individual only receives one payment, whichever payment is financially more supportive to the family. That has been the case with social welfare for a considerable number of years. The number of people affected is very small and it involves a very small amount of money but if it is taken in the context of the overall discussions at budget time with regard to the preparation of the Estimates, it was incumbent on me, given the particular circumstances, to find a certain amount of money so that I could significantly increase the base line payments of up to €630 million this year for all those in receipt of social welfare payments, including widows and widowers who received an additional entitlement of €10.

I appreciate that Senators have expressed very emotional views which they are entitled to do and reflected what has been said in their constituency clinics, correspondence and in telephone calls. I am meeting the National Association of Widows in Ireland in about two minutes. I am going with an open mind to discuss the issue and perhaps there might be a more progressive and long-term way of dealing with what I and all of us accept are the difficulties which widows and widowers experience. Not only do they find themselves in a financial difficulty, with an income-related problem, but they also have an emotional issue with which they must deal. One of the major difficulties and one of the biggest frustrations for any Minister for Social and Family Affairs is the fact that when one tries to support one particular group within the social welfare code, it must be done for everyone. The consequences are very difficult from a financial perspective.

We have done much in terms of supporting widows aged over 66 years. Part of An Agreed Programme for Government was to address an anomaly and that has been finalised this year. As I stated in the other House, I will examine specifically the issues pertaining to widows under the age of 66. It is my view that, if it is at all possible, a programme of supports for widows and widowers should be introduced. It is not long ago since we introduced a widower's pension in this country. We introduced a bereavement grant which is very progressive and supportive. The taxation system has been very supportive in addressing the concerns of many widows and widowers. A widow or widower who is in employment does not pay any PRSI on the first €289 of either their pension or their financial income.

I appreciate the sincerity of those Senators who have spoken and I know about the issue and care about it. At the mouth of an abyss we might perhaps come up with a better solution to support very vulnerable people, especially young widows under the age of 66 who have children. Those are the people who are most vulnerable. The Senators should note the statistics which show that the greatest number of widows are aged over 66 years. We need to be aware of the facts but I appreciate the sincerity of the remarks made by Senators. I thank the Acting Chairman for allowing me to wander for a few minutes. I sincerely thank all the Members of Seanad Éireann who decided to participate in the debate.