John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister to the House again. It is noteworthy that he attended here on the three occasions the Second Stage debate was held. Not many Ministers remain for so much of a debate. In fact, many make their contribution and leave as soon as possible. I congratulate the Minister in that regard.

This Bill is one of the most important to come before the House during my time here. As in the case of other legislation, much of it is good and other parts could be improved upon. I welcome its inclusion of an ombudsman commission, a progressive step which has been welcomed by everyone and one which will be of assistance to the Garda in the future. Serious questions have been raised down through the years regarding the operation of the Garda Síochána and accountability within it. I am delighted the Minister has provided for an ombudsman commission. It will bring about many improvements for the force.

Also included is a provision regarding joint policing committees. As a former member of a local authority in Kilkenny, I am aware of the number of representations received by councillors from local groups in terms of policing issues on the ground. The establishment of joint policing committees is to be welcomed. However, my attention, and that of many other Members, has been drawn to a discrepancy in the current draft which provides that local authority members of town councils, formerly town commissions, and borough councils will not have the same rights as members of county and city councils as regards joint policing committees. This needs to be examined.

An example was given yesterday of County Cork, which has 12 urban authorities. It must be acknowledged that a large proportion of criminality takes place in urban areas. In view of this, the Bill would be improved if it provided that town and borough councillors could become members of the joint policing committees. It is interesting that the term "local authority" as defined in the Bill differs from that in the Local Government Act 2001, also discussed in this House. That should be corrected. I hope the Minister will see fit, during Committee and Report Stages, to give urban authorities direct access to joint policing committees.

A number of speakers referred to the Garda volunteer force, which is, in many respects, a good proposal. I listened with amazement to the contribution of one Senator who spoke of parents policing discos when he was young. I do not believe that is what is envisaged under the Bill and I could not support such an idea. Parents cannot be allowed to patrol the streets in a vigilante type fashion in order to protect their children and, God knows, whatever else. The Garda volunteer force may have some merit but I would have serious questions to ask if it were to be used in the manner suggested by a Senator on the Government side.

I have been contacted by a number of voluntary bodies as regards section 26 which deals with future payment by bodies and groups for a Garda presence during the holding of particular events. Many bodies may have the resources to fund a Garda presence at their events but that would not be the case for small festivals and voluntary events. I urge the Minister to consider exempting voluntary bodies from this provision. The proposal is not a bad done, but it needs greater consideration in terms of its detail. I urge the Minister to re-examine this issue before proceeding.

I am also aware — this point may not be relevant to the Bill — as a representative of a rural area of concerns regarding the closure of rural Garda stations. It is an issue which crops up at every meeting I attend. Local communities are rightly aggrieved about the non-occupation of Garda stations in their areas. It is imperative that as many rural Garda stations as possible are manned in the future. The presence of the Garda on the beat in any area, be it rural or urban, is a deterrent to criminality. I ask that the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform look favourably on the proposal to fund rural Garda stations as a preventative measure. It is important to have in place a garda involved in the local community, a garda whose children attend the local school, a garda who is involved in local activities in his or her area. Such gardaí are an asset to a rural community. I would like to see more rather than less of them in place in the future.

I am also anxious that the Minister reply to a statement issued yesterday by the Taoiseach when he said that remarks made by him and the Minister about the activities of the IRA had indirectly led to action taken that might see an end to the criminality to which they referred. While this is not directly linked to the Bill, will the Minister indicate if he is satisfied with the words spoken by the Taoiseach, that the Minister's remarks might bring an end to the criminality to which he referred? The Taoiseach has become famous for the type of language he uses but does the Minister consider that the use of the word "might" in this situation is sufficiently strong or appropriate?

I broadly support the thrust of the Bill but I am concerned about a number of areas, in particular section 26, and the provision whereby local authorities will not be directly represented on the joint policing committees. Those are two areas that can be improved upon.

In my own city of Kilkenny, which retains its status as a city despite the battle we had in that regard after the Local Government Act 2001, and its surrounding areas, which has a population of approximately 25,000 people, there will not now be a direct link with the joint policing committee as proposed under the Bill. Much of the thuggery or whatever in which people engage when leaving pubs or nightclubs at weekends takes place on the streets in the city of Kilkenny and it would behighly inappropriate if the members of the borough council in Kilkenny did not have the opportunity to make a direct input into the joint policing committees, and not through the roundabout mechanism of county development boards and so on. Many town authorities have informal arrangements with the local gardaí but this is an opportunity to finalise those arrangements and I urge the Minister, before going any further, to take this opportunity to do so.