Joe O'Toole (Independent)

On the same issue, in a previous job I had a colleague who dealt with people who insisted on taking people through the courts. In her very first discussion with them she always told them that if they were looking for justice they should go to heaven but if they were looking for the law they should go to the courts. The courts are never the place for justice. They have never been intended to be the place for justice and people are confused about that. That is one of the reasons we are one of the most litigious populations in Europe.

I agree completely with what Senator Hayes said about giving space to the victims but I welcome the opportunities now at last being given in the judicial system to give a voice to victims in the courtroom and to have a victim impact assessment within the courtroom to allow people to say what is necessary.

We have discussed this issue on many occasions. There was a discussion at an early stage of this Government in which the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform — I am sure the Leader will correct me if I am wrong — said it was being considered that the victims in rape cases, for instance, might have legal representation in the courtroom during the course of their hearing. That measure would be welcomed and would be in line with the comments made by Senator Brian Hayes. It might be worthwhile having a discussion on these issues outside this particular case——