Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)

Senator Brian Hayes, as Leader of the Opposition, spoke in very careful, measured terms about the lessons we can learn from a particular case. I know we are not supposed to comment on the case but I believe the family in question was enormously brave. Can one imagine any woman having to speak as Mrs. Murphy did? Her words were incredibly courageous. The Senator referred to the need for victims to receive a progress report on their case and on delays. It appears that progress reports are not issued in cases of the kind in question, but it would be very useful if they were.

The Senator also referred to the size of courtrooms. Many are in very old buildings, which are not custom-made and cannot cater for huge crowds. Everybody is cheek by jowl in many very large cases, which must make it extraordinarily difficult for people to do their business, particularly when there are emotional matters involved as there are in any case. The Senator called for a general debate on these matters. I am not referring to yesterday's case in saying that victim impact statements, which were introduced some years ago, are a good idea. They allow victims to go through a process of catharsis in which they can say what they want.

Senator Brian Hayes put forward very practical points. Senator O'Toole made the point that courts are never the place for justice, a point taken up by Senator Tuffy. When the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, is in the House on Thursday, we can ask him if he will participate in a debate on the broader matters referred to and on sentencing policies. Senator Tuffy said a balanced system of justice is needed. There will be people for and against whatever sentence is passed. That is why judges have such an important role to play because the responsibility for making decisions in cases such as this rests upon their shoulders. The Senator also wants the Minister for Health and Children to come to the House to discuss the Hanly report and its current position.

Senator Dardis agrees with Senator Brian Hayes and he wants trials and tribunals to be televised. I do not know whether that is a good idea. It is very American but perhaps it is appropriate to modern times. He would also like a debate on a forbidden subject, the GAA.

Senator Bannon referred to the RGDATA report. I read the booklet about "ghost town Britain" but it did not refer to post offices, it was about large out-of-town shopping centres, saying that people want a return to smaller shopping enclaves. He too wanted a debate on the Hanly report.

Senator Brennan referred to the first national playground document. I will ask the relevant Minister to come to the House to discuss it. Many urban areas are keen to have access to or to provide money for play areas.

Senator Norris talked about drinking. No.13 on the Order Paper states: "Statements on the high level of alcohol consumption by young people (resumed)". There was an item on the news this morning about a EUROSTAT report to the effect that the Irish are the greatest imbibers in Europe. I do not know whether this research includes wine which is taken with many meals in other countries. Women were cited again as a bad example, which is unfair because I do not meet many women who drink to excess. Perhaps they are doing it and we do not know about it.