Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

It is a little bit like water charges, property taxes and so on. There may be a good theoretical case for introducing the various charges but the reality is we are a democracy and we have to pay attention to what the people want. It is clear the people want us to manage. They would take the view that they are paying for third level education largely through the tax system and they do not want to pay fees as an extra tax.

What worries me is the relative insecurity of many who work in universities, particularly the younger people at lower levels. If one is in cutting edge scientific research one may be reasonably well funded. I had a daughter who was funded by the Wellcome Foundation when she was doing doctoral and post-doctoral research. There are many who live on relatively short-term contracts with no certainty that they will be renewed. We are talking about competitiveness. If we want very good people to staff our universities we have got to find ways of rewarding them and I am not convinced we are doing that. There is much talk about the need for accountability, transparency and so on and I agree with that up to a point but we do not need a total bureaucratisation of universities. I do not want to see a good deal of money for third level education going into third level bureaucracy. I know from relatives who work across the water that they spend far too much time filling in forms, satisfying reviews and so on. I take Senator Ryan's point that quality in teaching is equally important to quality in research. Both are needed but they are not always found in the same person. Both are necessary within departments.