Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

I cannot support either of these amendments in the precise form in which they are drafted. However, the amendments do contain points of substance. I am not quite sure why the age of 60 is included in the amendment. I do not know at what age people entered the teaching profession 40 years ago. I admire teaching and think it is an exceptionally demanding occupation — 40 years would probably be enough for most people to spend in it. Some teachers are in full flight at 65 and are happy to continue teaching while others have contributed all they can by the age of 50 or 55. There must be a detailed early retirement rate so that those no longer in a position to contribute can retire and be reasonably looked after financially, although not on terms as advantageous as those who work until 65. This has probably been negotiated and may require further negotiation. I doubt whether this provision in all its baldness will survive until new entrants reach the age of retirement.

I now turn to the issue of politicians, of whom there are different categories. I take two examples from the Opposition benches, namely, retired Deputies who have made large sums of money by running a successful string of night-clubs and bookmakers. I also think of former Members from all parties that take up directorships. The public does not understand that well-off people in occupations that pay better than politics can nonetheless collect a pension.

Equally, there are people who face a complete loss of income if they lose their seat. I met a prominent former member of the Northern Assembly who made a big contribution to politics there. He is effectively without income and survives on what his wife earns. Fortunately for him his family is reared. I think of someone who was appointed to this House some years back because having lost a Dáil seat, this person would have been destitute. That is not right. However, we must be aware that when the public reads the list of recipients of political pensions, it sees comfortably well-off people adding to their incomes and getting pensions long before they are entitled to them. Members see individual cases where former Members, having given good service, are hard up. As I suggested on Second Stage, pensions should be paid to people who have reached the age of, for example, 55 and do not have other means of support or income. This is a little like the cnuas in Aosdána. If one is earning money from artistic and literary activity and does not need the income, then one does not collect it. There should be a safety net for those caught in difficult circumstances and do not have readily available means of employment after losing a seat in politics. I do not see any case where those who have a successful career in politics and go on to have even more successful career in business, should receive a pension at such an age. To this extent, I support what is contained in the legislation.