Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)

I was the spokesperson on social welfare in the last Dáil. The dilemma sometimes is that in Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Acts these matters are stitched on at the end.

The argument of this House is that there is an opportunity in the context of this Bill — it has been many years coming and to the Minister's credit she has produced it — to get this right now rather than stitching it on in years to come. The Minister stated in regard to my amendments Nos. 3 and 28 that she is considering the issue in conjunction with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. She also stated that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform may deal with this in the Courts Service Bill. However, that only affects guardianship orders which come before the courts. The majority of new guardianship orders — I do not know how many because nobody has evidence on total numbers — which we encourage unmarried mothers and fathers to make with each other, are made outside the courts. Even if the Minister amends the Bill she refers to in conjunction with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, it will only deal with matters before the courts. It will not deal with the new regulations of guardianship which have come about since the introduction of Children Act 1997.

We have an obligation to get this right now. The definition of "events" for the purposes of the Bill includes adoption, foreign adoption, marriage, death and decree of divorce. However, the Minister cannot create a value judgment that guardianship is less important to a person or has some sort of second class status in the context of life events. To a man not married to a woman but who has a child with her, it is just as important as adoption or the issue of stillbirth.

We should get away from the notion that we are creating different divisions of life events. The objective of this legislation is to modernise civil registration and to take account of the new life events provided for in previous legislation. I do not accept the argument that in some way guardianship is outside the remit of a life event, as the Minister has described. I reiterate that it is fine for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to change the Courts Service Act 1997, as we would then know of all the guardianship orders going through the courts. However, we will not know of all the guardianship agreements between unmarried mothers and fathers and, consequently, it will undermine the State's claim that men have an obligation to their children.

We should encourage people to take full and active part in and responsibility for the rearing of children, in particular men, some of whom do not take any such responsibility. While I suspect we will have a debate on section 22 later as it concerns a related point, the State has an obligation in regard to all aspects of legislation to state that it is encouraging people to seek guardianship and, if that happens, that the State will register this in the national civil register, which has been in existence since the foundation of the State and before, and that the State will recognise this as a life event. That is not difficult to accept.

I appreciate the Minister's dilemma in that she is in discussion with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on this issue. However, it is a serious matter, in particular for men who want to stay close to their children but for all kinds of reasons, such as the breakdown of a relationship or otherwise, cannot. We must be mindful of this as we try to modernise this legislation.