Pat Gallagher (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)

I thank all the Senators who took part in the debate. I will not be drawn into responding to the issue of electronic voting to which only one Member referred because we had a very comprehensive debate yesterday by way of statements. There may be other opportunities to discuss it in the future.

This Bill deals specifically with the implementation of the constituency commission report of 2003 and the Council's decisions of June and September 2002. Several Senators mentioned the difficulty of communicating Europe. We depend on the media at local, regional and national level to do that and at times if there are matters of great interest or importance at home EU matters do not receive the same coverage. When I was in the European Parliament we depended on our organisations in our constituencies, the NGOs and chambers of commerce to relay the message and communicate Europe. The Government, through the Department of Foreign Affairs, and the offices of the European Parliament and Commission have endeavoured to communicate EU matters over many years. MEPs can invite citizens, mostly from their constituencies, to visit the European institutions, such as the Parliament, and meet Commission representatives and officials within the Council. Many hundreds of people who have visited the institutions over the past 20 years have returned with a different view of them. However, this does not have a ripple effect at home. I could not agree more with the Senators. We all have an obligation — the Government, the Commission, the Parliament and the Council — to make the European Union more meaningful to constituents throughout the 15 member states.

On 1 May we will have the historic opportunity to preside over the accession of ten new member states from eastern Europe. We will also have the opportunity of visiting many of those countries in the lead up to the accession. These are countries whose per capita income is well below that which we had in 1973 when we joined the European Community. They countries have the right to share in the future of the European Union when it generates greater wealth. We had that opportunity and it is a tribute to successive Governments that our per capita income has risen from 55% in those years to well over 110%. Hopefully by 2009 Bulgaria and Romania will be members of the Union. That will have a knock-on effect on our membership and the number of members representing us at the Parliament.

I welcome the support for this Bill offered by the Fine Gael spokesperson, Senator Bannon, and I agree with many of his sentiments concerning the need for more awareness of EU matters. He referred to the necessity to promote it in schools and perhaps that is where we should start to communicate Europe. There are means and funding to assist this but possibly not enough. He referred, as did many Senators, to the turnout in the polls for a European election. Maybe we are fortunate that it is on the same day as a local election this year. In 1994, when I first stood, there was no local election because there had been one in 1991, therefore it was more difficult. There was one in West Mayo which created a by-election and for the town councils, which contributed to an increase in the vote. The legislation now in place will ensure that in future we will hold local and European elections on one day and that helps to ensure a higher percentage poll.

Senators Bannon and Ryan raised the question of the dual mandate. It is a limited dual mandate for Members of the Oireachtas and MEPs. It is not reasonable to compare this with the dual mandate between the Dáil and the local authorities. This has been flagged for many years and not having the dual mandate does not have the same effect. Senator Mansergh referred to the Government and how by-elections can destabilise Government and have a serious knock-on effect for the country. The derogation is only for a limited period of two or three years at a maximum, depending on whether the next election is called in 2006 or 2007. If Members of the Oireachtas stand, it would result in a number of by-elections and parties would not welcome that. We had minority Governments in 1994 and 1997. I draw the attention of Members to the early 1980s when 13 Members of the Oireachtas were elected to the European Parliament, many of whom returned to Government in June 1981 and made a tremendous contribution. They were not necessarily from my party. There will not be a dual mandate from the next election. This is a transition period. While there may be opposition to it, none of the parties sees any difficulty with it.

As regards the timing of the European count, which was raised by Senators Kitt and Brady, due to European rules, the results cannot be announced until polls close in other member states. That does not suggest that a count cannot start. I understand the count will start next June at approximately 6 p.m. or 7 p.m. People may ask why it cannot start earlier. However, that would not make a difference because two or three hours is ample time to commence. If it was the traditional system of the ballot paper, it would start early on Sunday morning, as it did in the past. That will not be necessary now.

The modules for the European election will be returned to the returning officer in each of the Dáil constituencies and then transferred to CDs. Those will then be delivered to the European returning officers. I hope the first count will be available at 9.30 p.m. on the Sunday evening. All the counts could be available at 9.30 p.m., but we must be humane in that regard. We all remember and have learned lessons from the experience of former Deputy Nora Owen in Dublin North. We do not want that repeated for any candidate in the future. The process will be completed for each count and the results will be made known. There will be a lapse between each count, unlike the big bang we experienced in 2002. I hope the results will be known at 11 p.m. We all recall the various marathon counts in the European constituencies which lasted until the early hours of the morning. That will not be necessary in the future. All the documentation on the count, including the voter machine modules and the CDs, to which I referred, will then be sent to the chief returning officer for the European Parliament elections. That will allow him or her to commence the count around 6 p.m.

Senator Ryan referred to a change in the count rules. I am not aware that they have been changed. There are no changes in the count rules which apply at present. Perhaps the question of simplifying the count rules may be considered after 2004 but, as of now, there are not any changes. As regards critics of the system, the Minister and the Department listen carefully to everyone, despite what the Opposition may think. The Minister and I have not sought to denigrate any of the critics or opponents of the system. All the reports are available to the public. There are many views on the system. Some people agree with it, while others disagree. It is time to move on. We should take this opportunity to reassure the public that we are not being partisan. This is a way forward. Ireland should be proud of its success in e-commerce, e-government and electronic voting. The answers to any questions raised will be available soon. There were more than 100 questions, not 41, asked about this issue and we will try to provide that information at an early date.

Senator Bannon raised a question about a member of a local authority standing for the European Parliament. An outgoing member of a local authority may stand for the European Parliament. If a person is elected to both the European Parliament and the local authority, he or she must resign from one of them immediately on election. I presume he or she would resign from the local authority, but it would be a matter for that person. We have a sensible system in our local authorities. It was known to us in Donegal as the Blaney-Mahony pact of the 1940s. There is general agreement that the party which loses a seat has the right of co-option.