Brendan Kenneally (Fianna Fail)

I wish to share my time with Senator Ormonde. I welcome the Minister of State to the House and am pleased to have the opportunity to speak on this subject. I am a supporter of the spatial strategy and I am an advocate of the Government's policy in that regard. I am a long-time supporter of the decentralisation process, going back to before I entered the Oireachtas in 1989. I have always regarded it as being of benefit to the country. It is the case that one third of the population is living in one little corner in Dublin and overflowing into the adjoining counties. It is not healthy and it is not good for the country. The population should be evenly distributed.

Some of my colleagues were surprised at the attitude of Fine Gael and the Labour Party to this motion. They should not be because Fine Gael and the Labour Party are consistent in their attitude to decentralisation; they have always been against it and they are still against it. I am amazed at how out of touch they are with the wishes of the people. They have proven tonight that they are out of touch.

Over the years, perhaps civil servants have not wanted to leave Dublin because it was more difficult to do so. Our regional towns and cities were not as well developed and the idea of moving around the country might not have been as attractive as it is now. Ireland has changed completely in recent years and its towns and cities have been developed. People require schools, good restaurants and pubs, shopping facilities and recreational amenities, all of which are now available in the regions, within a short distance of most people's homes. It is evident that there will be more facilities in a place like Dublin, because of its sheer size, but everything is available in the regions now. The prospect of moving out of Dublin is now attractive for most people. They know they will not be discommoded by finding that certain services are unavailable.

It is not as difficult as it once was to persuade civil servants to move from Dublin. They are familiar with the experiences of their colleagues who have already moved. I would like to query some of the figures that have been cited in this regard. It has emerged that when those working in Departments were asked if they want to move to places like Ennis and Shannon, just 2% or 3% of them said that they were willing to do so. It may be the case that they are unwilling to move to the towns about which they were asked, but they may be keen to go to plenty of other places. They should be asked if they want to decentralise.

The Secretary General of the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources and many of his senior officials attended a joint committee meeting yesterday. The Secretary General said that when an initial trawl of the Department was conducted — the survey did not encourage anybody to move — 30% of its civil servants said they were willing to decentralise. They may not necessarily want to move to Cavan, where the Department will be located, but they want to decentralise. We are well on the way to meeting the target numbers for decentralisation because people want to go.

I recall that when I said to a civil servant who had moved to the Land Registry in Waterford that I was unaware that she was from the Waterford region, she said that neither her nor her husband were from the region. They had examined the possibility of moving to the region, for example by comparing the type of house they could buy in Waterford to the house in which they lived in Dublin. The traffic problems they experienced in Dublin do not exist in Waterford. They decided they could enjoy a far better lifestyle in Waterford and they are now quite happy.

The experience I have outlined is replicated in every town and city throughout the country. Civil servants who have moved are quite happy with what they have done. We are looking for 10,000 people to move and I do not think we will have a problem in that regard. It is obvious that civil servants will transfer across Departments, which has always happened. The Government's decision to proceed with the decentralisation programme is a marvellous one. I fully support the motion before the House.