John Minihan (Progressive Democrats)

Since 1957, we had a permanent presence in the Middle East. We have lost many lives in the Middle East endeavouring to bring about a peaceful settlement. There have been advances in areas such as Lebanon where this country contributed so much. The Lebanese people have shown their gratitude and are eternally grateful for our contribution. It appears that when one problem is solved in the Middle East, another surfaces. That is why I firmly believe no one area can be dealt with in isolation. It has to be a regional settlement. I welcome the Minister's remarks about the comments by the Arab League, which is endeavouring to have a more regional settlement.

I spent a number of years in the region while serving in the Defence Forces. Through the course of my work I have spoken to both sides of the divide. I have listened to impassioned ideology but at all times I heard an undercurrent of hatred and a failure to accept the other point of view. I have seen injustices on both sides and for every one I could name on one side, I could name one on the other. I could express outrage at events I witnessed and at the behaviour of the Israelis or the disregard for human life by the Palestinians. All of this would be to no avail as there is wrong on both sides.

I make one observation, that a democratic state has to uphold certain principles even if those opposed to that state do not share those principles, such as justice and the right to a fair trial. Collective punishments by the Israeli Government are wrong. I can never accept the Israeli viewpoint on this. I cannot accept that the Israeli Government and the IDF stood by over the massacres in Sabra and Shatila. Equally, I cannot accept the attack on Israeli athletes in Munich and the number of suicide bombings. It is hard to see a renewal of the ceasefire and the road map because of the instability of the Palestinian Authority. As the Minister said, there will have to be a slow, smaller step approach to the endeavour of bringing about a peace settlement.

On the issue of the wall, it is a wall and not a security fence. Members will remember the tearing down of the Berlin wall and the symbolism associated with that. A bigger wall is now being created, which is a reversal of those issues and that symbolism. The Berlin wall was 3.6 metres high with a length of 155 kilometres whereas the Israeli wall is eight metres high with a length of 730 km. This is wrong and I welcome that the Government has chosen to make a submission to the International Court of Justice on this issue.

I hope that Israel will countenance what is being said by the international community. Just because the international community may differ with Israel does not mean it does not support its right to have a state. Israel should listen to its friends.