Shane Ross (Independent)

I second the motion and congratulate Senator Norris on a powerful explanation of what is going on in the Middle East following his trip there.

Senator Norris's report is particularly potent in that despite the fact that he has skilfully managed to obtain all-party agreement on this issue and that he has managed to produce a balanced motion, he has reached conclusions which must be difficult for him because he has had a tradition in this House of being particularly understanding of the Israeli point of view. That required a great deal of courage. The report, therefore, also carries a great deal of credibility and conviction because in it Senator Norris says things extremely hurtful to the Israeli Government. It is important such things are said by people sympathetic to the Israeli people.

The delegation to the Middle East was sponsored — Senator Norris can correct me if I am wrong — by Christian Aid which, as far as I know, has no particular bias or axe to grind in the Middle East. It holds only Christian and humanitarian values. Senator Norris's companions, who presumably agree with the substance of what he had to say, were two Members from the other House who are not identified in the public mind, and certainly not in mine, with the Palestinian cause. The credibility of the report should not be underestimated. I find it extremely impressive because I have long been sympathetic, like Senator Norris, to the State of Israel and have believed for a long time that it has been a nation and people under siege. Everyone in this country identifies to some extent with a nation in that position, fighting a war for existence more than anything else. The problem, as explained to us this evening, is that particular fight for existence and survival has, in certain instances, turned into a war of oppression, domination, aggression and slaughter and it is making life miserable for sections of people there.

Senator Norris made a powerful contribution. It is important that people like Senator Norris, when returning from such visits, do their parliamentary duty and explain what is happening to Government which often does not hear as much on the ground as it hears from its advisers and those who sit in Iveagh House. I do not wish to be pejorative, it is simply a reflection of what has happened. Senator Norris's contribution was very significant. Perhaps the Minister of State will relay his remarks to the Minister when he informs him about this debate.

The letter which Senator Norris read from Yassar Arafat's representative — much of what he said should be emphasised — stated quite specifically that Yassar Arafat's organisation condemned the suicide bombings. The message should go out that he stated that unequivocally. There is a great deal of ambiguity in that regard.

On many occasions, I have heard Israeli spokesmen saying Yassar Arafat and his followers refuse to condemn suicide bombers. It is important, if we are to deal with people like Yassar Arafat, as the Government does, that we recognise that he condemns suicide bombings and that they have no support, tacit or open, from him. It is also important the Israeli Embassy in Ireland and the Israeli Government understand that many people now understand and accept that message.

It is important we recognise the dangers of what can happen in such situations. Whereas we may sympathise with Israel's great fear of persecution, something which makes all nations behave in a manner we may not understand and which history has shown us people do when under threat, the result of that fear will be — this was mentioned in Senator Norris's speech — that it acts as a recruitment for the worst type of terrorists on the Palestinian side. We have seen this in situations closer to home where oppression has led to the creation of terrorists and public support for terrorism. There is a danger that people from these sectors will flock to the al-Qaeda flag and that, in desperation, not that it can offer them a great deal, they will become involved in acts of violence with which they would not normally be associated, and acts of pseudo-anarchy in a demonstration against those whom they view as their oppressors. There is a real danger of that happening closer to home also.

Where does the United States stand on this issue? Ireland has a great deal of influence in the United States. Does it support the war so vividly described by Senator Norris? Can the Irish Government put pressure on the United States, which provides tacit support for the worst atrocities of this regime? I think it can and it is important the Government does so. What can Ireland do to help? We will not persuade Prime Minister Sharon to do a U-turn.

I was struck by the fact that Cement Roadstone Holdings, one of our main companies, is assisting in the building of the wall. We are entitled to ask whether we should approve of one of the largest public companies in this State taking what is obviously not a neutral stand but one very much in favour of one side in this conflict. I am not an advocate of ethical investment in the purest sense because one then goes down a road and it is almost impossible to stop. One cannot, in a situation of war and slaughter, be neutral if one is assisting one side in the creation of a ghetto. In such a situation, one cannot wipe one's hands saying it has nothing to do with one while providing the concrete which creates that ghetto.

I thank Senator Norris for bringing to the attention of this House a matter which would otherwise not have been debated but for his vivid description of the situation. I ask the Minister of State to take Senator Norris's message to the Minister for Foreign Affairs who will then, presumably, discuss it at the meetings of the EU Foreign Affairs Ministers under the Irish Presidency and where he will exert whatever influence he can on Israel, the United States and the Palestinians to take the messages of this visit to heart.