Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I welcome the Minister to the House. I refuse to make any political point on this issue and we should all move away from making such points. There is no point trying to blame those currently in authority. I do not believe anybody in Government is trying to cover up anything in this regard, although they might not have handled it as well as I would like.

I would like a more pragmatic approach to dealing with the issue. Certain guidelines and matters of principle should be considered so that every victim should have the opportunity to have a person or issue investigated. That does not mean we must have every single complaint dealt with individually as long as no person against whom an allegation is made is let off the hook. It could then be said, for example, that there has been consideration of an investigation arising from a complaint made by a named person and that it is also understood that 24 other people made similar complaints. The most serious allegation could be investigated on that basis and a conclusion reached, and it would also be known that a certain number of other people have spoken to the other tribunal.

In this regard, there is a general principle which we have avoided. While it was avoided for the best reasons in the world, it does not help people just because one can go to several different places to have this issue dealt with. It is easier if people are helped to get their story told and their sufferings recorded. It is not necessary in that regard to investigate every single allegation as long as the most serious of the allegations against every single person and institution against whom an allegation is made are specifically investigated. It is not a matter of trying to get overall agreement on that. If the Minister were to do that, and consultation followed with those who also have allegations against a similar person, the State could point to the fact that it had investigated a person, as well as noting other allegations, and found him completely guilty, that the State accepts this and, on that basis, the person or particular institution can be considered to have been dealt with. We can do that.

There is a lack of understanding in political life in that the legislation in this regard was discussed and passed in the Houses but came in different pieces. Members do not understand precisely the relationships between the investigation, the hearing and redress, which are quite complex in regard to how one moves from one to another. It is important we recognise and understand that.

Those are just the practicalities. The real issue is the suffering and pain caused, on which Members are all agreed. What bothered me most about the report was its reference — I am sure we will hear more about it — to a complaint made in 1995 or 1996 by the management of an institution about a member of staff who had been found to have been abusing children therein. The complaint was not dealt with in any way.

There is no record in the Department of Education and Science of the complaint made by this person, which is appalling. We should say it is appalling. This is the kind of thing that creates a lack of confidence and this is why there is a lack of confidence in the Department of Education and Science on this issue, which I can well understand.

Whatever the amount of money involved, it will never repay these people for the way their lives have been wasted and destroyed. They are carrying with them baggage, pain and mental distress which will be part of their lives forever. The only institution dealt with was the fisheries school. Complaints had been made in that instance. In other words, the structure was in place for someone to carry out an examination. The institution was examined, a report was sent in and nothing happened because Bishop Moynihan decided he did not want to do anything about the matter. This is where the problem lies.

Members on all sides have the best of intentions. We are all focused on the same objective and conclusion. The Government must regain our confidence in this regard. It must listen to the views offered on this side of the House as well as in the other House and try to solve the matter.