Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister of State.

I support the motion. Dr. Mansergh said employment is not rising but he would find the most recent figures from the CSO dreary reading. Every employment exchange in my constituency of Carlow, in Tullow, Bagenalstown and Carlow, has shown marked increases in numbers of clients. There are only 200 extra people in the Carlow exchange but that is a big percentage of the population of Carlow and unfortunately there will be 60 more in March when a factory in the area closes and relocates in Germany.

The CSO figures on relative incomes also make for startling reading. Carlow is now the poorest county in the country outside the BMW region, which was a wake-up call for me. We can all get caught up in our lives and think everyone is wealthy, with everything they need, but these figures can bring us back to earth. The figures also indicated that relative income in Dublin was very high, which might suggest there is no poverty in Dublin, but I accept that that is not the case. These CSO figures bring home problems in a concrete way.

The community employment schemes are a way to deal with these problems. They have been so successful that we may have taken them for granted. I refer to the schemes in country areas in particular, as rural areas are most affected by these cutbacks. The cutbacks were announced in 2002 and it is baffling that the Government congratulated itself on maintaining the number of CE scheme places at the 2003 level when it did not admit that it reduced numbers in 2002. In addition, many community employment schemes in the health area were ring-fenced and could not be touched, which meant that schemes involving sports, amenity trusts and tidy towns suffered cutbacks. I have personal experience of schemes being amalgamated, which resulted in supervisors losing their jobs and worker numbers being halved overnight. That is the reality and I am not being political.

There is no doubt that community employment schemes have given a new lease of life to certain people who were not as lucky as many of us with educational opportunities. Some of them did not finish primary school and perhaps got married young, having families at an early age. They found at 45 or 50 they were able to get the necessary training and go back into the workforce. They then felt they were a valuable part of society. I cannot understand why the Government is keen to put those people back in the dole queues. There is very little monetary difference between the salary of a CE scheme and unemployment benefit. It makes no sense to return these people to the dole queue when one considers the benefit to such people of having a job which makes them feel good. Our motion refers to the boost to self-esteem for people involved in community employment schemes and such considerations show that it makes no sense whatsoever to discontinue schemes or cut them back.

I reiterate that cuts in the community employment schemes have been felt in rural areas particularly and it is time the Government addressed this. I look forward to hearing more details of the so-called additional 2,500 community-related employment places and the rural social programme. I look forward to seeing how that is to be implemented but unfortunately the Government's credibility in this area is very low.