John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)

Does the Senator intend to run for election?

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy de Valera, to the House. She missed the extraordinary contribution of her colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, earlier. In my 18 months here, that contribution ranks as the most nonsensical and idiotic response I have heard to a motion from any Minister. It was further marred by an abusive personal attack at the end, which he should have withdrawn. However, he did not, and I hope the point he made will be highlighted because it shows what a petty and vindictive nature he must have. What he said was beneath contempt.

The Minister clearly had not read the Fine Gael motion because he launched into a tirade about how there will be more places on the FÁS community employment scheme under the new rural social scheme. The rural social scheme has nothing to do with the FÁS community employment scheme. It is being run by the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs under the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, and is a completely separate scheme. The Minister of State did not know this; obviously, he had no idea what he was talking about.

He then launched into another spiel about how this new scheme will be a great success. Senator Leyden and other Government Senators also spoke about how great the scheme would be. We were told on the day of the budget that there would be 2,000 places, which has since been increased to 2,500. Perhaps there will be this many places. However, I must point out that there are at least 2,500 farmers in Kilkenny alone, and I am sure there are many more in other parts of the country, who would be eligible for the scheme. It is certain, with the way agriculture is going at the moment, that many more farmers will become eligible in the future. People should not jump up and down about the fact that there will be 2,500 places for small farmers. It is a drop in the ocean. This scheme is not a triumph — it is nothing about which to scream and shout.

Senator McDowell made some pertinent points about the structure of the CE scheme. When it was set up it was intended to be a labour market intervention mechanism at a time when there were record levels of unemployment. These levels have now dropped significantly. However, the number of places on CE schemes has also dropped significantly over the past few years. An example from my area is the scheme in Mooncoin, County Kilkenny. Fifteen years ago when the scheme was set up, there were almost 40 people on it but now there are only nine. Unemployment in Mooncoin, or in any other part of the country, has not dropped that much. The Government is fooling itself if it believes this is the case. I do not know where Senator Leyden lives because he claims he did not receive much representation on this issue. However, I have never received more representation on any issue since I became involved in politics. I have not seen such emotion expressed on any other subject. Senator Leyden should get into the real world if he claims he has not received any representations on this issue.

I agree with Senator Ross's comments that the structure of FÁS is top-heavy. It is ironic and wrong that when last year's numbers on the community employment schemes were being cut, there were increases in FÁS directors' salaries. It was shocking and badly managed. It was utterly wrong that, at a time when the scheme was being dramatically reduced, the directors were landing themselves increased salaries. The Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Fahey, speaking off-the-cuff, informed the House that there have been no cuts in the community employment schemes this year. However, we are only a couple of working weeks into the new year. Does the Minister of State want a pat on the back for saying that x number of people were on the schemes on 31 December 2003 and the same number are on them on 1 January 2004? That is a foregone conclusion. The Fine Gael Party is pointing out that over the past number of years, there have been significant decreases in the numbers involved in the community employment schemes.

Senator McDowell pointed to the relatively small additional costs involved in keeping someone on a community employment scheme, as opposed to the live register. It is significant that it is such a small amount of money. For that small amount, so much can be done in different communities where these schemes provide valuable services.

We all are interested to know from Senator Leyden what goes on behind the closed doors of a Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting. The Senator may be interested to note that the predicament of Irish immigrants was brought up by the Fine Gael Party in this House last year. The Government did and said nothing about the issue at the time. Maybe the Government should wake up to what others are saying. Just because the Fianna Fáil Party decides to have a discussion on a matter, does not mean it invented it. This has been a serious issue for a long time and I hope we will have a Private Members' motion on the plight of Irish immigrants, who through no fault of their own, are working overseas.

A number of Senators referred to the matter of volunteering. Again, the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, was out of step. Most Members involved in local communities will know how difficult it is to get people involved in community groups of one sort or another. The Minister of State stated how he was going to do x, y and z to promote volunteering. However, this will not be easily done. In most families, both parents tend to be working and they do not have the time or the energy after work to commit themselves to voluntary work. The community employment schemes fulfil an important role in both urban and rural communities in helping to offset the decreasing number of people becoming involved in volunteer work. The Government should not stick its head in the sand, claiming that this problem can be reversed easily.

I am surprised to see, as in Senator Leyden's remarks, an adoption by the Government of a thorough Progressive Democrat ethos. The Progressive Democrats won the battle on the development of Lansdowne Road, a battle Fine Gael has been saying for the past five years should have been won. The Taoiseach's aspirations for his pet project in Abbotstown were shot down yesterday, not before time and after losing much valuable time for Irish sport. In a recent article on the Progressive Democrats, they were described as the prophets of doom. I would hate to think that the Fianna Fáil Party——