Shane Ross (Independent)

It is not such a threat to the economy of the nation that we have no more pay deals. There is no proof that the pay deals were the saviour of the economy. The people who did well out of the pay deals were the public servants. Of course they start hurting and do not like it much when the suggestion is made that they be given some sort of equality with the private sector. They may be made to work until they are 65 years of age. Senator O'Toole says there are certain 65 year olds who cannot keep a class in order. That is true, but it is also true of some 25, 35, 45 and 55 year olds. It is nothing to do with age.

People must retire sometime, but I do not see any reason public servants should be given preference over anybody else. If they are to be given such preferential treatment in terms of salaries and wages, let us see them given the same treatment as others on pensions. I welcome that and hope it is not a negotiating ploy. If it is not, and if we have no more pay deals, that is the price we must pay. We will then find out whether the pay deals were the great panacea for the economy. I suggest they were not. That is a minority opinion but I will not back away from it.

I wonder what influences were brought to bear most on this budget. I do not share the view that the greatest influence was, necessarily, the Fianna Fáil backbenchers although some good points in it were the result of that pressure. I welcome with great enthusiasm the idea that we should decentralise as much as possible.