Maurice Hayes (Independent)

I will not take all of it, a Chathaoirligh. I compliment Senator McDowell on his very thoughtful and erudite contribution, which covered most of what I would wish to say about this Bill. I feel no need to take an entirely derogatory approach towards the legal profession, partly because three of my children are in various branches of that profession, both in this country and in the UK. None of them appears to be a particularly "fat cat" and all of them very readily come home to their mother for a meal when it suits them.

It is a pity we are not discussing this Bill in parallel with the civil liability and courts Bill. It is an interesting social experiment, which I generally support. However, it can be seductively simple and I believe there is a danger of investing it with too much potential and raising hopes which may not materialise. I hope it will be a first duty of the board to consult with the courts system in an attempt to arrive at a modus vivendi. There is a legitimate interest in taking as many cases as possible out of the adversarial system in situations where liabliity is not challenged and a settlement is possible. However, I am not happy with the impression that this will result in a magical reduction in insurance costs and premia. The managing director of an insurance company said at an Oireachtas committee meeting recently that there could be no guarantee that premia would reduce.

I agree with Senator McDowell that legal costs are an element – but only one element – in this situation. My concern is for genuinely injured parties. In the pursuit of lower costs, those who may suffer are people who were genuinely injured. There are great advantages in having a book of quantum, which could also be introduced in other elements of the courts system. Increasingly, it should be possible to give some guidance and direction in that regard. Above all else, what would bring down the cost of civil liability and insurance would be the elimination of fraudulent claims. The courts are now beginning to look at that.

It is hugely important for public bodies to introduce proper systems of risk management, which could have a transformative effect. There was a famous case in the North where a single flagstone in Ballymurphy gave rise to 132 claims for injuries, 32 of which were from members of the same family and several of the claims were serial ones. However, people started to note the pattern to those reports. It was found that there was also a pattern to claims made in regard to particular hospitals. Claims for bad back pain were fashionable in one hospital but were not fashionable in another. Slippy floors were cited on claims somewhere else. There should be an onus on the public body concerned. Everybody who is managing service should try to do the best he or she can to eliminate fraudulent claims.