Maurice Hayes (Independent)

I also welcome the Minister to the House. This is a subject of enormous sensitivity and I am struck by the way in which Senators on both sides of the debate expressed their views with moderation, compassion and respect for the views of those who differ from them.

I, too, was surprised when this matter went for consideration to the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business. I would not have thought it a place where people interested in ethical issues are wont to congregate, although they probably had wonderful insights on other aspects of the matter.

Two parallel debates appear to be going on and we run the risk of confusing them. The first is, if the Minister should support the proposal for research funding at the Council of Ministers. The more fundamental and widespread debate concerns what should happen in future here in regard to research, in general, and to embryonic stem cell research in particular. I speak as a former lay member of a medical school ethical research committee. There are differences of opinion on these matters with which people wrestle.

On the first issue, as to whether the research funding should be passed, less than 1% of this research budget will be spent on this particular form of research. If we were not net recipients of European funds, Ireland would theoretically contribute 1% or 1.5%. It would be disproportionate for us to try to prevent this research taking place. I was encouraged by reading the Minister's address to the House about the way in which the ethical guidelines on this matter have been framed. It is a considerable advance and reinforces the point made by Senator Terry – whether inadvertently or not – that the lack of guidelines and ethical regulations leaves it as almost a free-for-all. Important safeguards have been established in the banning of cloning and the production of embryos simply for the sake of research, which effectively bans interference with the genetic make-up of a child. It would be a great pity to lose these provisions which may happen if the measure does not go through in this form. We will lose the advantage if we say this kind of research can go on in other countries as long as it does not affect us in Ireland.

On the wider point, I am grateful for the most informative address to the House made by Senator Henry, from which I learned a great deal. This is an area that cannot be viewed in black and white. I respect the position of those who say that life begins at conception. I would not be as derogatory of the Catholic University of Louvain as some other Senators. It is not simply a flag of convenience, it is a recognised centre for Catholic-oriented thought. It is not, however, the voice of the Catholic Church. Historically the voice of the church has not always been dogmatic on these issues. I can go back to Aquinas if anybody wishes.