Maurice Hayes (Independent)

Before raising my own substantive point, I support Senator Ryan's plea for a debate on stem cell research. That is the type of decent reflective debate for which the Seanad is ideally suited. I probably would have a different view from many others on the issue, but that is not the point. I too was amazed when I read that the issue was being handled by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment which does not appear to be the locus of any particular experience or competence in matters of ethics or biomedical research.

I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on public sector management. I am indebted to Senator Ryan who raised the question of project management yesterday. I was struck by a remark by the Taoiseach in the other House yesterday when he said civil servants were not taking risks. One of the reasons civil servants do not take risks is that people like us crawl all over them and jump up and down when they do take risks. I had experience of this in the past where we sent people into deprived communities and told them not to be fuddy-duddy, to take the odd risk and to cut through red tape. Years later the Committee of Public Accounts and the media enter the scene. One part of the culture cannot be changed without changing the other part. The matter is worthy of a debate.