Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

I am very glad to contribute to this debate. This is an excellent document and has the merit of being readable, comprehensible and simple in a way that the old treaties never were. A major step has been taken along the path of making the EU more accessible for people, without creating the impression that one needs to be a bureaucrat. Having been a bureaucrat, I know that bureaucrats find many of the EU treaties incomprehensible as they stand.

From Ireland's point of view the outcome is very satisfactory. That is the message we need to keep sending to people. On the assumption that the negotiation does not drift too far away from where it is now, I do not see why we should have any difficulty endorsing it. Voting "No" to this in particular, but to any European treaty, is what one might call a nuclear bomb option, disastrous in its impact and effect and totally disproportionate to any particular cause of dissatisfaction that we might have. It is very satisfactory on the main issues. As for the precise voting mechanism, we are more than proportionally represented in the Council in terms of votes. That is not the issue. It is not how we exercise influence most of the time. The precise way that is done, whether through Nice or the revised way in the Convention, does not greatly matter from our point of view.

On the question of the commissioner, I take a slightly different view from Senator Mooney. The Government has adopted a pragmatic attitude. Equality is what is important. If one has a very large body of perhaps 27 or 30 people, in practice what happens is that all the work is done in committees. The more people one has, the more diluted it becomes. We are old hands in Brussels at this stage, 30 years down the line, and like other countries we will have no difficulty finding ways and channels, exercising our influence, getting early warning of what is in the pipeline and taking the necessary remedial action. It is a very reassuring thought that in the 30 years we have been in Europe, it is very hard to think of an example where no account has been taken of a vital national interest of ours, or where we have been over-ridden or trampled on in the manner portrayed by some of the Eurosceptics, who seem to have visions of France and Germany trampling all over us. It has not happened. On the contrary we have had very productive and constructive relationships, not least with those two countries.