Brendan Ryan (Labour)

—will know that it had become entirely impossible, and the choice was between this and stasis. There was no way another major revision of the European treaties could ever have been envisaged by way of further amendment. Even trying to read the Nice treaty led one back to the Amsterdam treaty and so on. They came one after another, and it became utterly impossible. One would actually need a shelf to encompass them all. It was impossible, and the project was therefore a good thing, and overall the outcome is good. The reservations I might have are currently shared by the Government, and I hope it manages to clarify them. Of course, we are at an early step in the process. There is an Intergovernmental Conference, and I believe I heard the Taoiseach say that on this occasion he thought the country should have a long and detailed debate before we had the referendum. Not being too confrontational, I hope that the mistake of having an early referendum in the case of the Nice treaty will not be repeated, because I believe that only good can come of a thorough, long and vigorous debate, which one hopes will be reasonably well funded, on both sides of the argument.

This is one of the areas in respect of which we should look at imaginative ways of using resources. I would be as wary as the Minister of State about some of the cranks and crackpots who might be able to gain access to significant amounts of public money and use it in dodgy ways. However, we ought to try to ensure there is a well resourced debate and people should be able to feel they have access to sufficient funds to be able to make their presence known. That is a difficult matter, but it could be of benefit to both sides to have access to resources because we need an intelligent debate on the issue.

Another point I wish to make has already been raised by a number of colleagues and by the Government and refers to the area of crime. I do not intend to criticise the Government, but its explanatory guide to the draft treaty states that the adoption of minimum rules on the mutual admissibility of evidence shall not prevent member states from maintaining or introducing a higher level of protection for the rights of individuals in criminal procedures. I am in favour of that, but I am wary of future circumstances in which an Irish citizen arrested in Germany or Poland might have fewer rights in one part of the EU than they would have in another in terms of mounting a criminal defence. I understand the complexities involved, but, if anything, that represents a retreat and is part of the reflection of the fact that we are involved in two entirely different legal systems. This is a dodgy area and it is one in respect of which I would counsel the Government to be careful, as I think it will be.