Charlie McCreevy (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)

People have to understand that if we went down that particular route, the whole basis on which we set up this group would be set at naught.

The implementation of the increases was negotiated with the unions in the context of the current national agreement. It had already been agreed under the PPF that one quarter would be paid with effect from December 2001. As part of the public service pay agreement under Sustaining Progress it was agreed that half of the increases would be paid on 1 January 2004 and the final quarter on 1 June 2005 provided certain important conditions are met. It is the payment of these two final phases and the general round increases that Fine Gael is seeking to change. It must be remembered that the conditions apply both to the benchmarking increases and the general round increases.

Much is being made of the conditions for the payment of the increase and it is right that we as taxpayers should insist that in order to get these increases the public service observes the conditions attaching to them. The Government has made it clear that it will pay the increase on the basis of the conditions set down in the agreement. It cannot do otherwise without breaking the agreement so recently concluded by us. If the unions were to try to break their agreements would the same commentators not accuse them of bad faith and a lack of trustworthiness?

The primary and most transparent condition is that there should be no industrial action such as we saw in recent years in our hospitals and in our schools. Any form of industrial action will be clear for all to see and would be a breach of the conditions of the agreement. Previous national pay agreements contained commitments to promoting industrial harmony and seeking to preclude industrial action. We all know that these had only a limited effect in preventing industrial action. The provisions in Sustaining Progress are stronger and clearer. There are procedures for eliminating the causes of disputes so they will not arise. To date we have had no disputes and I hope that continues. However, if it does not it will be clear to all and the breach of the agreement will be clear.

The other conditions relate to changes in how the public services operate and there are commitments by the unions to specific changes and to more general co-operation with ongoing change. Some of the changes will be obvious for all to see while others, by no means less important, will not, but all will contribute to improving and modernising our public services to give better customer service and improved value to the taxpayer. The requirement to co-operate generally with modernisation and change will help managers to improve services either through technology or otherwise and so improve public services. I will take some examples from the Civil Service.