Joe O'Toole (Independent)

There is little difference between what Members on all sides of House are saying on this subject. There is a difference in the Fine Gael position on neutrality at the end.

This country has never been neutral. It may have been politically neutral but it has never been neutral. We should look closely at where we stand on issues. We should recognise the fact that there is a moral, military and political neutrality. Whereas we may not have been politically involved, it is not true to say we were ever neutral. Decent Irish people went to fight in the 15th international brigade, with the support of many of us who favour Irish neutrality, Mr. de Valera went to the German embassy to sign the book of condolences on the death of Hitler and access to the Shannon stopover was granted for planes going to Iraq. We have never been neutral, although we may not have been militarily involved.

No one should be allowed to discuss neutrality until they have defined it. I have had great difficulty doing so myself and that is why I cannot come to a conclusion on the question. I do not know any neutral country. It is not true to say Sweden is a neutral country. It has sold arms to both sides of every war I can remember and has got fat on the proceeds. That is hardly neutrality. Switzerland is not a neutral country. It flogs and launders money from every corrupt regime in the world.

Utterly unacceptable things are going on in the world at the moment. The first war against Iraq was properly decided upon by the United Nations but it was run by the United States. The war was not fought by a UN army. The current war against Iraq is absolutely illegal and we must say so.

Having said that, we must look at what is happening in the world today. One of the issues that threatens my view on neutrality is what happened in Kosovo. I think of the European Union standing back while ordinary undefended people were being killed and brutalised and none of us did anything about it. In fairness to the United States, of which I am a constant critic, it did go in to try to protect the unprotected people of Kosovo.