Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)

I will examine Senator Minihan's point. The law at present provides that if a licensed person permits drunkenness on a premises, he is liable to a penalty under the 1872 Act. The phrase "permitting drunkenness" is already in use. We are not dealing with a novel concept. Subparagraph (c), therefore, is an existing offence and the defence provided for it in subsection (4) is reasonable. It provides that if somebody comes across drunkenness on the premises, "It is a defence to prove that the licensee took reasonable steps to prevent the drunkenness concerned taking place". That is a complete defence.

There are subtleties in section 4 which some of the amendments do not take on board. It is an offence for a licensee on licensed premises to supply drink to a drunken person or to any person for consumption by a drunken person or "(b) to permit a drunken person to consume intoxicating liquor" on the premises. There is a distinction between subparagraphs (a) and (b) and (c) and (d) which should be noted by the House. Subparagraphs (c) and (d) refer to the bar. This is of particular significance to hoteliers. If one is running a hotel and somebody returns drunk to the hotel, the hotelier cannot forbid the person to come into the hotel. He can allow the person on to the premises, bring the person to their room or even allow them into the residents' lounge to sleep off their condition.

Likewise, if somebody was found falling down drunk in a public house, it would be permissible for a publican, rather than throwing them out onto the street, to bring them to a room and avoid an offence in regard to the bar of the premises. A number of people from outside the House had asked if publicans would be throwing people out on the roadside in a state where they were a danger to themselves.

I am happy with the way the section is drafted. It is subtly drafted to distinguish between hotels and other premises and between bar situations and non-bar situations. It provides a defence for somebody who is accused of permitting drunkenness. The person can say: "I did not permit it; I run an operation which takes all reasonable steps to prevent this type of thing happening."