Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State and will begin by addressing an issue which ties in very closely with what he said in winding up. I listened carefully to what he had to say about there being no consensus on the previous occasion and that he hoped people would get their act together in this regard. I have difficulty with many of the points he made. I have considerable difficulty with the legislation and, although I will support the motion, I am not completely happy with it as it does not address the issue sufficiently.

There is an easy way to deal with the issue of electoral expenses. Would the Minister of State be prepared to set up a joint committee which would require a qualified majority to come to conclusions? It would involve people, not just the Government, sitting down to ascertain needs, set limits and make rules. They would get rid of the 58 pages of guidelines, if required. As everyone would engage in this process together, there would be balance on the pitch.

I expressed extraordinary reservations about this legislation when it was introduced. It is a little like the Intoxicating Liquor Bill dealt with earlier this evening. People were jumping up and down on a moral crusade. One almost felt unclean to be questioning some of the points made. The same is happening in respect of this motion. While I support the thinking behind it, I have a difficulty with its wording. I do not trust a Government – not necessarily the present one – to make decisions on this issue. The decision-making process should be removed from Government if the matter is to be addressed properly.

I agree completely with the Minister of State's point about offices. Even if he was never a Minister of State, the legislation, with all its definitions, would allow him to be given the use of an office. This does not concern the limit on donations by the electorate. It is necessary to ask what an office is. What is the difference between an office and a space or between an office and a room? Does an office have a telephone? Is a room without a telephone an office? Should there be a photocopier, a fax machine, Internet facilities and a telephone? I suggest that any normal office should have these items. However, if this involves extra expense, who pays it? This is unclear in the legislation and needs to be looked at.