Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

I will read it. It obviously has the heavy imprint of the person whose signature appears at the bottom, namely, Deputy Gay Mitchell. It is not clear to me that we have to go as far as he recommends, particularly regarding mutual defence. Quarters other than neutral countries will block any attempt to establish the EU as duplicating or rivalling NATO, the core of which is the mutual defence commitment.

I accept that Fine Gael has been under substantial and uncomfortable pressure from the Christian Democrat group for a number of years. While I do not deny that Fine Gael might genuinely believe this to be the best way forward, I am not convinced that we have to go so far. Going back to the 1930s, there has been two strands in Irish foreign policy: the policy of neutrality and the principle of collective security. The challenge facing our foreign policy in these conditions is marrying these two principles. I agree that Europe should be in a position to intervene in genocides and undertake active forms of peacekeeping and peace enforcement.

I am pleased that tax harmonisation seems to be safe for the moment. While the point has been made that circumstances may change in the future, that is hard to say. Tax harmonisation is currently our most vital national interest, apart from continued membership of the EU, which is in our overriding national interest. We ought to note that an exit mechanism is being provided. If any member state were to become obstructive, other partners would be able to point to the exit door in a more convincing fashion than heretofore.

Like other speakers, I am not frightened by the word "federalism". As was pointed out by Senator Dardis, while the EU has certain federal characteristics, it is not a federal state nor is it likely to be. Both Deputy John Bruton and I have made the following point. What differentiates the EU from the United States of America is the EU has minuscule revenues, just over 1% of the wealth of the Union. There will never be a powerful, centralised, quasi-dictatorial state taking away our sovereignty as long as this is the case. The reality is that member states are in charge and we need not worry about that.

Those that are concerned about values, especially Christian values and ethos should be reassured by the draft that is being prepared. Senator Lydon alluded to this. Even though God is not in the preamble, there is recognition of churches, church schools, rights to marry and found a family, etc. I am sure everyone will have noticed and welcomed the strong intervention of the Pope in the Polish referendum. I hope that in future debates people will pipe down on this aspect. I do not see it as being under threat. The European charter on human rights and the best in European law have something to contribute that can enrich us.