Senator Ryan also brought up the question of public private partnerships and I was glad that my colleague, Senator Dardis, referred to it. I was interested in the debate which took place which I listened to and watched on the in-house television service, and there is no doubt that finance in general is the problem, along with sticking to the stability pact parameters. We were led to believe, however, that the difficulty lay in the public private partnerships, on which, taking Senator Ryan's main point, there should be a debate. It has become the mantra, "Everybody is in favour of them", but no one knows much about them. We should have a proper structured debate on the issue and I will seek to have one. I thank Senator Dardis who was also at the meeting of the joint committee for his comments on the matter. We understand the point made by Senator Brian Hayes who was speaking for himself in a public forum which is perfectly understandable.