Brendan Ryan (Labour)

I apologise. The second thing is that benchmarking was entered into because the same people who are now criticising it took great exception to the old concept of relativities in the public service and wanted something based on private sector practice. The problem was that the private sector demanded that all the records of the benchmarking body be destroyed, so we do not know how that body came to any of its conclusions.

It is a bit ridiculous to blame the people who have to some degree benefited from benchmarking for the incompetence – or the perceived incompetence – with which benchmarking was carried out because we cannot judge how decisions were arrived at. If we are to have a debate in this House about competitiveness, benchmarking and related issues, we ought not to talk merely about the public servants, only some of whom have benefited significantly. We need to talk also about the process, the thinking, the strange logic which demands that something be done, and then, when that turns out to benefit people who supposedly should not benefit, puts the blame on these beneficiaries for entering into the process. The trouble is that benchmarking went wrong from the point of view of those who promoted it – not, incidentally, the public services unions.

We need a serious debate about competitiveness because there is an opinion abroad that wages are the cause of whatever problems the country has regarding competitiveness, though the appreciation of the euro is probably a far more significant factor. I know the Government is engaged in serious reflection on competitiveness and the economy, and this House could contribute.

I would like this House to hear at an early stage the position of the Government on the new US, British and Spanish resolution in the UN Security Council regarding sanctions against Iraq. My understanding was that sanctions were imposed on Iraq not because we did not like the regime, but because we were not satisfied that the country had got rid of its weapons of mass destruction. If the United States, Britain and Spain want to certify that Iraq no longer has these weapons, then the sanctions can be dropped. It appears now that we are to be asked to drop the sanctions even though we are assured that the weapons are still there. I would like to hear the Government view.

I agree completely with Senator O'Toole. The logic behind so much of our infrastructural development is to follow the market, which greatly pressurises the Dublin area, whereas the correct process would be to drive the market in a different direction. Otherwise we will end up with a grossly overpopulated east coast and a completely depopulated western section, for no reason other than lack of proper planning.