I agree with Senators Brian Hayes and O'Toole about the need for a debate on the health services. I heard the Minister say this morning that there is no crisis. This is the familiar refrain, "What crisis? There is no crisis," that has been in existence for most of my active political career. There is a crisis in the health service. It is very simple: either there is enough money to fund the health services, in which case the Minister should sack the management because it is not using resources properly, or there is not enough money, in which case the Minister should resign. It is as simple as that. Either there is enough money or there is not. It is up to the Minister to take responsibility and to get away from the weasel words. In the five major Dublin hospitals, 6% of all procedures are now being cancelled – 14,000 out of a total of 250,000. That is a significant number and it is less than honest to pretend otherwise. There should be a serious, open-ended debate on the health service.