Brendan Ryan (Labour)

—that Fianna Fáil lives in a cloud above reality, reading speeches and using information provided by its €20 million a year spin doctors.

The Minister for Health and Children mentioned the primary care groups. Who would argue that they are not a great idea? However, to cater for 80,000 people – the word in the script was "client", but he corrected it to "people"– costs €4.5 million per year. To do it nationally would cost €250 million a year. Did anyone say we were going to do it nationally? The people are fed up with the Minister's programmes, plots and pilot groups. They want a service.

The issue raised in this debate was the medical card system. I believe, as the Minister says he does, that between 90% and 95% of health problems can be dealt through the primary care system. We want is to ensure it dealt with this way because that is what people want. It does not have to be a medical card system.

Apparently, €138 a week is the income threshold which we as a community believe makes a person rich enough to pay €45 to attend a GP and €70 a month, at a minimum, on medicines. There is a restaurant nearby that charges €138 for the starters for two people.